Chat about the game...

For the sake of discussion, force manipulation creates items that fully duplicate powers without mentioning that they lack a AV.

Actually turns out I'm wrong on checking back. I missed that the first time through. Interesting. I'll have to keep that in mind.

Still, the other useful thing here is the ruling you applied when I first ran Silas over on the MURPG board; When creating powers with a factor cost bonus (or limitation) look at the AP purchasing chart to find the cost of the power created at however many APs of Force Manipulation are being used to create the power, then find the closest value under the factor cost of the modified power.

For Example: Energy Blast is FC 3, with Area Effect it becomes FC 4. So look up the number of APs used to create the effect, lets say 14 which comes out to 96 points, and then move over to find the closest point value in the FC 4 column, which is 12.

COPIED FROM SILAS's THREAD 25/11/2015

OOC Will have a good think about Force Manip, but it needs careful thought because a) with some creative thinking you can make anything and b) it is more powerful than originally intended in the book. To counter that I always thought Force manipulation was... well a bit useless. To get a high enough APs to make it useful you were looking at 1000+ HP characters (and even then, they were useless at everything else) and compared to other FC10 powers (apart from ice Production and Magnetic Control, they have me scratching my head) it seemed like you needed to spend more to be able to conjure up average stuff. Green Lantern has 25APs of course and once you've divided that up between various stats and abilities you have... well, ordinary stuff for the most part. I saw a comic with Superman once quoting the green lantern ring as "Easily the most powerful weapon in the universe". Well that had me scratching my head too, but in the comic books they write it to be so. Give me a day or two and I will rewrite our version of the power. Till then we use (which may well remain):

Use the HP spent on APs of Force Manipulation to buy:

• Base Cost and APs of powers, stats and bonus/limitations as per gadget rules
  
• No reliability or gadget bonus
  
• AV,EV,OV,RV are FC1 BC5
  
• Gadgets MUST have a reasonable physical explanation - Flight/Jetpack, Force Field/Projector, Laser Gun/Energy Blast etc. The realms of superhero technology in comics are more or less boundless, but we have to reign in some of the powers boundaries otherwise everyone would take Force manipulation and things would get boring
  
• NO LINKING to attributes with created gadgets
  
• Italicized and Hardened defence gadgets are ok, cost FC+2 each
  
• An open mind/being sensible about this stuff is required! If GM/Player don't agree on something, we revert back to the base, bog standard power as set out in the Blood Of Heroes book which means you divide APs between abilities. Doing things this new way truly expands the power, but any whiff of min/maxing or making super duper gadgets and we swap back to stock rules.
  
• Max Aps of ANY attribute/power/whatever is the APs of force manipulation, no matter if with FC1 you can make a universe destroying pistol or whatever.
  
• To create a gadget is instant (the power does heavy lifting) which is another bonus over gadgetry, and you don't need a lab, money, brains etc
  
• To make something REALLY out there, you WILL need gadgetry to help your device along, and the OV/RV are the APs of the 'WTF' ability you are cooking up, AND it will take a number of rounds equal to the APs of the ability you are cooking up, just because you are beyond the realms of current knowledge and no one succeeds first time

That's what I got so far. It greatly expands Force Manipulation (dividing HP spent on APs between stuff instead of APs) and if it seems like overkill/too much we may have to reign it in. For now, that's what we'll use, but comments, suggestions, stuff always welcome. I shall post a copy of this in the OOC section, and to be honest, I really think we need a House Rules section and a Characters thread. It's only been 6 years. Been getting round to it, just like cleaning out the garage etc

Bits in bold to remind me to do stuff.

It would have come up sooner or later, but in Lionhearts latest fight (which he came out of victorious though not without bruises...) a low Double result came up, and the choice between a higher roll (in this case 14) vs a low double (double 2) was the choice. It's a tricky one. I took the choice for the character to resolve the post (one of the problems of play by post of course) and as it turned out, the follow up (12) bumped the result up to 16, just higher than the alternative result.

So, question. Do you always want me to take doubles, regardless of anything else? As you know, doubles explode, so there's always a chance of a decent second roll, but what if it was double 2 vs say, a 10 and 9? If that were the case I'd have put it to the player and probably the fight wouldn't have been resolved till later that day or the next. Tricky one.

One of the reasons I changed Skills to the way they work now was so Hero Points could be spent on stuff that really matters - last ditch defence (keeping you on your feet), buying extra dice (if you don't have a skill to use) and character improvement. I need to get Frostbite and Lionheart re-writes out of the way and then turn to re-costing character improvement. In a table top game, improvement is sloth like. In play by post, it's glacial. We've been playing 6+ years (in some cases) and the characters have hardly changed. Indeed, changing system brought about the biggest changes, so that needs looking at. I know it's all about the role play, but when the characters are better able, they can take on a wider range of challenges.

And with a threatened invasion by microscopic enemies, possible infestation of billions of locust like aliens, attempted resurrection of the man who killed King Arthur (Mordred) and a deadly virus that threatens all of Britain, its fair to say you have enough on your plate right now. I'd like to dole more on, because I'm nice like that

Updates slower today (will be tonight) as in/out of house. Tomorrow will probably be non existent - out on the beer all day. Back to normal rate Sunday (hung over but just about functioning I hope).

Unnngh. Updates later. Running around like a mad un on Friday, Saturday out on the beer all day and Sunday, well I wasn't in a fit state to do anything. I greatly overestimated my powers of recuperation I think... can't take my beer... doh

By the way paul, I posted. I just couldn't resist using the dice roller to sort out my doubles so the 'last posted' tracker on my thread still reads 'Admin'

Oh right thanks for the heads up. Will check that out...

Proposed rewrite of Adrenaline surge

As it stands, Adrenaline surge is a Dice power that can be bought cheaply and is open to abuse with regards min/maxing. With that in mind I'm offering a new game rule to reduce its capabilities. The costs will change but there will be an inherent limitation applied, being:

When Adrenaline Surge is used, the number of RAPs gained will reduce the number of RAPs still available to increase by further use of the power. The character starts with a 'bank' of points equal to the power APs. This is reduced by the number of RAPs on a push attempt using the power. When the 'bank' is reduced to zero, the power cannot be used until it is recovered via the usual means (Bashing or resting Recovery). The 'bank' will recover 1AP every 8APs (15 minutes) of time if there is 1 point or more left in it. The player can choose to use less RAPs than rolled if they require. The bank cannot be lowered below zero and at that level Adrenaline Surge does not work.

Example: Frostbite with Adrenaline Surge 15 uses his power to boost Dispersal. His current 'bank' is 15 as the power has not been used for a while. making the push check, Frostbite gains 11RAPs and adds them to his Dispersal power for one round. His bank has reduced from 15 to 4. Frostbite doesn't use the power for a couple of hours and regains 8 points (one every 15 minutes of time). The Bank is now 12 points. In a fight he pushes his Strength by 3 RAPs. His bank drops to 9. He later boosts his weather control by 12 RAPs. This is more than he has left in the bank so the player chooses to boost by 8 RAPs to leave one left so that it can recover normally. He could have used all of them, but the power would then be out of commission for an hour (at level 0) or until he makes a recovery check.

It needs a little book keeping but Dave (E) if you would rather I find a different solution (maybe using a power reserve like Lionheart or simply buying more APs of powers after ditching Adrenaline Surge) I can do that. Ryan, David, if you have any comments/suggestions, am all ears.

With regards pricing I was gong to bring the price of the power up to FC9 and have the above 'bank' limitation as a -3FC option so if you take Adrenaline surge and use this bank limitation, the Factor Cost will be 6 (which it is right now).

Anyway, just some thoughts. Right, stuff to get on with, updates today at some point.

1. Open to abuse, well maybe by someone who knows what they are doing! And that isn’t me! However I realise if someone did, and it wasn’t changed…

2. Am I right in understanding that there is some sort of Die Roll that determines the amount in the ‘bank’ available to use in a given action? And that this is why it’s cheaper to buy than power reserve? If that is so, then I can see the point of rolling for amount you get to withdraw from the bank to use. However it does seem like it’s another die roll, between choice and action, which adds a layer. I can see the point of it, but still. One idea is to have a lower bank, say half and cut out the die roll? So you might get less of a spread of dramatic pushes, more a one off push in a specific incident. And either it recharges faster or maybe it doesn’t! Not sure.

3. Book keeping is fine, the thing I think will be a problem is that we can spend weeks on say five minutes of action, and then two sessions on a week going by? I don’t mind, but I suspect that that surge is going to hit 1, a lot. But let’s wait and see.

4. The thing about buying more AP for powers is that they might rise overall, but nothing will stand out as dramatically, in the same sense of do or die. No I like it as a one off boost determined by effort. And just having power reserve for Frostbite feels like encroaching on Lionheart. Frostbite has different resources and skills, let's keep it that way. In any case, I treat this as fluid, if we decide this isn't working within the confines of this then we can change it.

Sj

(Writing whilst holding a tissue to my face as having a nosebleed, so excuse any typos)

by 'Bank' you start with a number of points equal to your APs of power, in Frostbites case 15.

Say he wants to boost weather control (from and makes his check (using his 15Aps of power) to get 6 Result APs (RAPs) which then add to his Weather control for one action, boosting it from 8 to 14.

Weather control then drops back to 8 points, and Frostys Adrenaline surge 'bank' drops from 15 to 9 (because 6 points went on Weather control). He still makes his check with his 15Aps of power to see if he boosts, but his bank of available points to use is now only 9.

next time he uses Adren Surge to boost Dispersal (normally 5) by (it's a good roll) 15 points! Unfortunately he only has 9 points left in his bank so frosty has a choice. Use all 9 points in the bank to add to Dispersal (boosting it to 14) and losing Adrenaline Surge for 1 hour, or use 1-8 points to leave something in the bank which will recover normally 1 point every 15 minutes if not used. In either case 1 hour after it is last used he can make a recovery check to regain the bank up to its full value.

I can see why it's crunchy to someone not fully versed in the rules (and wasn't for a moment suggesting you as a min/maxer - far from it!) so I will give it some more thought.

Admin wrote:(Writing whilst holding a tissue to my face as having a nosebleed, so excuse any typos)

by 'Bank' you start with a number of points equal to your APs of power, in Frostbites case 15.

Say he wants to boost weather control (from and makes his check (using his 15Aps of power) to get 6 Result APs (RAPs) which then add to his Weather control for one action, boosting it from 8 to 14.

Weather control then drops back to 8 points, and Frostys Adrenaline surge 'bank' drops from 15 to 9 (because 6 points went on Weather control). He still makes his check with his 15Aps of power to see if he boosts, but his bank of available points to use is now only 9.

next time he uses Adren Surge to boost Dispersal (normally 5) by (it's a good roll) 15 points! Unfortunately he only has 9 points left in his bank so frosty has a choice. Use all 9 points in the bank to add to Dispersal (boosting it to 14) and losing Adrenaline Surge for 1 hour, or use 1-8 points to leave something in the bank which will recover normally 1 point every 15 minutes if not used. In either case 1 hour after it is last used he can make a recovery check to regain the bank up to its full value.

I can see why it's crunchy to someone not fully versed in the rules (and wasn't for a moment suggesting you as a min/maxer - far from it!) so I will give it some more thought.

Thanks for the clarification Paul, I can see it working and am happy with the changes you suggest. Thanks for getting back to me, hope the nosebleed didn't go on too long.

Sj

My vote is to leave Adrenaline surge alone and simply cap it at increasing powers to its own rating as it's max, or if something is equal to Adrenaline Surge it could apply a +1 to the total.

In really simple terms, Frosty has 15 Adrenaline surge and 8 Weather control, he can choose to roll Adrenaline surge, and get a bonus to his Weather Control bumping it up to 9-15, but never higher then that. If he had a force blast of 15 however he could roll Adrenaline Surge and provided he was successful it would bump his force blast up to 16.

This imposes a cap on it so you aren't suddenly swinging with 30 APs of something, doesn't make it overly priced (FC9 is only 1 less then Power Reserve for a fundamentally limited power in comparison), it also leaves it fully functional albeit with a fairly restrictive limitation in Frosty's specific case with it's burnout limitation.

Also, just reading up on everything.. over in Haunts thread, couldn't he use Self manipulation to turn his head into a cannon and then use his weaponry skill to do what he was describing with the shooting of debris? That would let him roll his extra dice and all.

Ugh, lost what I was typing doh.

Short version - Haunt could have used self manipulation to give projectile weapons 9 but I gave the benefit of the doubt in that using that mega strength as a means of throwing bricks would be far more effective. In either case he has Weaponry/Melee (for his omni arm) so not applicable for distance weapons. May need to tweak that if David wants. The character sheet is always open to tweaking/changes to get what's right for the player.

I like the cap on Adrenaline Surge. It's simple, avoids the eye bulging swingy rolls thing (Dispersal 20...) and is worth -1 limitation which means we can make the power more reliable by dropping the burnout a notch. Good call Ryan. Also saves me a pile of housekeeping. The problem (such as it is) of 'spamming' Adrenaline Surge every time you need a boost remains, but every time the dice are rolled there's a chance of burnout.

Dave E - basically as per Ryans suggestion, the most you can adrenaline boost a power to is 15APs (as per Adrenaline Boost). Your Energy blast therefore (at 14Aps) is almost at maximum capacity, but Dispersal and Weather Control, Str and any others are operating way below maximum, possibly as a measure of Frostbites own self restraint. It's your call, but I'm good with it...

Also, I was thinking with everyone having Regeneration, how about if there is a burnout due to a limitation then that lasts for an hour as per a character with regeneration, as being burned out for 30 secs hardly makes it a limitation in my book...

Ah yes, the other thing I lost.

With so many dice about we are seeing some spectacular rolls, but I haven't had chance to truly compare the original game (with the table I needed to look up every time... and thus limit my posting rate) with the 'off the top of my head' table I cooked up for our new system:



in anyones/everyones opinion, do I need to tweak things? Doing too much, too little damage per blow? I personally love the way Hero Points work now as its far less book keeping and easier to apply, but then I would say that...

Oh, and skill costs. I *think* they are too cheap now. Gone from one extreme to the other, but losing the link meant I had to do something otherwise they'd be utterly useless AND too expensive, hence the dice. Does that part of the table need tweaking? APs of Skill matter because they can be used to sub for stats if required AND need keeping track of for character improvement. Which I need to get round to. After sorting Lionheart out. Which will have to wait until I've finished the polishing, and the hoovering, and changed the battery on the car, and made a start on wiring another mains loop in the computer room, speaking of which I need to really make a start on tidying it up, and... etc.

All looks fine to me, to be honest its far easier to see in game than abstract out of game. These things are often in need of a bit of fine tuning, but the suggest Dunecat made, sounds good to me.

Sj

Also, this just occurred to me as far as advancement goes if you want an idea or two Paul.

First, cut the advancement costs to 75% across the board, then after each issue when you hand out HP, offer each character something they can pick up at 50% off the regular price in the book, or at some other value you pick. Basically that lets us develop however we feel is appropriate to how we want to progress, and/or how you feel events in the game are pointing what our characters would learn.

Will take a look at the maths involved (which I hate when gaming is concerned, winging it has always been a thing for me )

If we can strike a decent balance between game/advancement time then that will do for me, so will look at 75% off costs, 50% off costs and adding new powers/skills etc.

Updates this evening. Had a busy weekend, should be ok to update every day this week and fire up Frostbites next issue, plus HP award.

Update should be tonight before sack time. been a busy week with early starts and all that rubbish

Tomorrow going to see Star Wars after I finish work (dinnertime, then whizzing home, getting changed and taking mum+her partner to the pictures, a reverse of her taking me to the flicks in the summer of 1977, queuing round the block...).

Looking forward to it, but DESPERATE to avoid spoilers!!!

Admin wrote:Update should be tonight before sack time. been a busy week with early starts and all that rubbish

Tomorrow going to see Star Wars after I finish work (dinnertime, then whizzing home, getting changed and taking mum+her partner to the pictures, a reverse of her taking me to the flicks in the summer of 1977, queuing round the block...).

Looking forward to it, but DESPERATE to avoid spoilers!!!

Oh sounds good, got to book my tickets and yeah memories of me queuing around the block in 77 also. Just like so...
http://www.theguardian.com/film/gallery/2015/nov/21/1977-when-star-wars-hit-the-uk-in-pictures?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sj

Combination of movies, kids, work and work do on the weekend put paid to my posting aspirations, sorry

As for the film, it pleased and disappointed me in various ways, but overall I was happy with it. Without mentioning anything that spoils, I thought the Music Score was the the most underwhelming part of it, probably about the worst in a Star Wars film, just because it felt weak rather than thunderous and dramatic as per previous. Anyway, see what you think. Once everyone has seen it we can chit chat about the merits and flaws of the film...

Admin wrote:Combination of movies, kids, work and work do on the weekend put paid to my posting aspirations, sorry

As for the film, it pleased and disappointed me in various ways, but overall I was happy with it. Without mentioning anything that spoils, I thought the Music Score was the the most underwhelming part of it, probably about the worst in a Star Wars film, just because it felt weak rather than thunderous and dramatic as per previous. Anyway, see what you think. Once everyone has seen it we can chit chat about the merits and flaws of the film...

Yeah thanks for not spoiling anything, I don't get to see it till Wed night.

Understand about the weekend real life, but hey stop spoiling us with such a rapid turn around in posts mate ;-).

Anyway its late, so I'll take a look at things tomorrow now. I'm such a morning person these days

Sj

I just watched it a couple days ago.. and I really enjoyed it! Especially that part where that thing happened!

dunecat wrote:I just watched it a couple days ago..  and I really enjoyed it! Especially that part where that thing happened!

Finally all being well get to see it tonight with my daughter. Son saw it at the late premier and had the cinema to himself, go figure.

Sj