Chat About the Games Part Two

Just thought there was too many pages in the old Game Chat, so started a new one.

And having started a new chat about game, had some awful thoughts about Prof. Wynde and gang near the end of that fight before the last round where we blocked the new foes off.

GOOD THING I HAVE ALL THIS FREE TIME AT WORK TO DO THIS, ISN'T IT?  

Until I remembered that Faerie, who is probably the team's MVP and should wind up being second in command after the Earl joins them, could teleport the whole team back to the Keep, I thought we were all dead.

Once I remembered that she could teleport us, then I thought about how to keep the door closed.  If Wonderman hadn't been able to do that, then with Faerie having the lowest initiative score, all those new guards would have blasted Wonderman and Prof. Wynde, since they were up front.  Prof. Wynde would have DIED!    
Think that would have made him the first PC to die and stay dead.  Didn't realize at the time that the amulet was acting to shield him from physical damage.  But still probably would have died even with that protection with so many new guards firing and him already down half his Body.

So ... had weird thoughts run through my head over that.  Such as:

Prof. Wynde would have died and not being an Actual Lore Knight would not have had a shot at resurrection back at the Keep.  Wonderman would have survived the first burst from the new guards.  Maybe some of the others would have died or been severely wounded.  Probably Major Oak would have died for real this time.  Again, having forgotten Faerie could teleport everyone home, thought she and Wonderman and maybe one or two more might have gotten away the next round.  Also forgot that the others could teleport themselves home too and Wonderman would have had to try and flee on his own.

What to do then?  Team would have been in bad shape, maybe lost members.  No Prof. Wynde which would end PC involvement with the issue.  Would they do their duty and report to Churchill that the place needed to be bombed and shot to hell with Artillery too as the air cover would have made mincemeat of the air attack alone?  And then would need to be invaded to take them out underground?  Would they go looking for more help, maybe finding Thoth and get him to help them.  Would new Lore Knights appear who had the powers that would help them fix this?  So NPCs would fix things.


OR

Evil Grin.


The adventure would have gone on hold for six months to a year or more.  Allowing the Haunt and Steeplejack to finish their current adventure, then adventure either in WW1 or the 20s and join our Pulp Adventure heroes or both and THEN find themselves in WW2 and they would hop in to resolve the problems.  


......................................
If that had happened, then I would have asked to do Lightning Bullet's mid-1950s adventures in place of the deceased Prof. Wynde's.    

BTW, any nibbles on folks from your other groups thinking about joining that?  I've been on a few times and there is a guest logged in at the same time a number of times when I do.  So I have hope somebody someday might join our little group.

.........................................
Been playing DC Universe Online, the MMORPG, when not haunting this group.   
And been playing my version of Marvel's Hercules on it as one of my FIFTY characters on there. [two accounts, 25 characters each].  And just thought it would be great for Haunt and Steeplejack to go back in time to Mythical Greece and meet various heroes, demi-gods and maybe a god or two, that time before the Golden Age of Greece when Gods, Monsters and Demi-gods actually walked the Earth.  Maybe the spell to move them forward in time went wrong and instead of heading to the 1902s, they went back to then.

Just ran into many problems with that idea and an idea or two of what we could do back then.

One, we couldn't speak the language unless we each bought Comprehend Languages high enough to converse with folks back then.  Or were given magical amulets that translated language.

Two, what would we do back then?  Advent shouldn't be there.  If the gods, who turn out to be real, saw Advent mucking about with their worshipers, Zeus might blast them with his Thunderbolts or Poseidon, who is also the god of earthquakes [and horses for some reason], would shake their base into dust or Hephaestus, god of volcanoes, would blow one up under their base.  So our heroes are trapped back in time with no Advent problem and no Thoth [I don't think he is that old or if he is, not as powerful back then]

Three, the two could be mistaken either for gods themselves or demi-gods.  This could present both problems and advantages.  Their human forms would prevent them from being considered monsters.  I could see Steeplejack being considered a son of Poseidon - Earthquakes.  Haunt?  Hmmmm ... Perhaps Zeus who is also a god of justice or Astraea [nope, a virgin] or Dike.

Astraea, Astrea or Astria (Ancient Greek: Ἀστραίᾱ; "star-maiden" or "starry night"), in ancient Greek religion, is a daughter of Astraeus and Eos. She is the Titan virgin goddess of justice, innocence, purity and precision. She is closely associated with the Greek goddess of justice, Dike (daughter of Zeus and Themis).  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike_(mythology)


Four, maybe one of the gods would appear and solve the language problem and promised to send them closer in time to home but only if they did a TASK for that god.  Off the top of my head, Poseidon would be the one, being earthquake god and all, with Steepljack having caught his eye with his earth moving powers.  Maybe some Egyptian Monsters are moving up into the Greek Gods' territory and they want them stopped?    Or maybe some Middle Eastern monsters [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_pre-Islamic_Arabia ]

That's the only plot idea I could come up with.  We would be so far back in time that even history doesn't exist, just myths and legends of that time.

and look at the time!  Late lunch time.  Gotta go!  Back to ramble more later!!  

You guys having super-slow internet over there the past week or so?  I did the speed test to see why I am having such a problem connecting.  Turns out my speed is pretty much maxed out.  It is my trying to connect that's the problem.  It would ping between 15-20 times before connecting.

So I would click "Reply" to type something and it would take 1-4 minutes before the screen fully loaded to let me reply.  Then I hit "Send" and it would take about the same time to send.      

It's only been like this for the past few weeks.  If I have to take a wild ass guess, I would say its because so many folks went back to college and school in the last few weeks.

Well I brought the LSH Vol 2, World Book, as well as The World at War Sourcebook with me to work today to figure out some possible Lore Knights for the WW2 version of them to round them up to the dozen that they could have.  Came up with 37 possible Lore Knights.    


But also going through the LSH v2 book, discovered two interesting things.  One, Superboy is weaker than Mon-El and Supergirl both, having a mere 47 Str compared to them both having a 48 Str.  Also Ultra Boy's superspeed is greater than all three of theirs.  OF course, this is first edition of the rules so a lot changed between then and 3rd.

Third thing I discovered out of the two things I discovered was their world building rules which reminded me of the old Space Opera world building rules but much simpler and set to give you an inhabitable world where SO never gave a guarantee of an inhabitable world.  Not sure what the numbers in parenthesis mean on Table 1c:  Gravity rating.  And it doesn't explain how many G's a planet has if it is Heavy Grav vs High Grav vs Very High Grav, though it does mention 2 and 3 Gs in the High Grav description.  Daxam and therefore Krypton is described as a Very High Grav planet.

And the 4th thing I discovered out of the 2 things I discovered is Supergirl has a Solar Sustenance of 50 but neither Superboy nor Mon-El have that power at all.




And I'm not really sure how Bouncing Boy attacks with the way they wrote his character.  He has no combat skills or powers listed.  Unless there is some kind of combat maneuver where Jumping on someone can cause damage.  Though the Writeup.org version is much better combat-wise:
Powers and Abilities

Chuck can expand his body, balloon-like, at will. In this soft, spongy form, Bouncing Boy can rebound his body off of surfaces with expert ease (in DC Heroes RPG terms, Jumping). While in mid-bounce, he is protected from electrical charges and shocks since he is not grounded (Electrical Immunity).

While his rubberized body does not feel pain from normal bounce impact (Skin Armor), he is not invulnerable to harm. Sufficient force can cause him pain. Still, his expert agility and extreme resilience make him a bounding, bouncing dervish on the battlefield.

When on the defensive he bounces rapidly all over the place in seemingly random patterns, becoming an extremely difficult target (Acrobatics/Dodging). In his inflated form, he often executes Charging attacks (using his APs of Jumping as EV), often combining this with a Multi-Attack to literally bowl over the opposition.

This makes him far more effective in physical combat than many would expect.

Game Stats — DC Heroes RPG Print Friendly

Tell me more about the game stats

Bouncing Boy

Dex: 08	Str: 03	Bod: 05	Motivation: Upholding the Good
Int: 06	Wil: 05	Min: 05	Occupation: Instructor General, U.P. Militia Academy
Inf: 04	Aur: 06	Spi: 05	Resources {or Wealth}: 006
Init: 020		HP: 060

Powers:
Acrobatics (Dodging): 10, Electrical Immunity: 04, Jumping: 07, Skin Armor: 06
Bonuses and Limitations:

• Acrobatics (Dodging) is a Powered Skill (-1 FC).
  
• Electrical Immunity is only when Chuck is bouncing through the air and not grounded – as such it can be bypassed with a +2 CS Trick Shot (-1 FC).
  
• All powers (including Acrobatics/Dodging) are Derived from Jumping (-1 FC each).
  

Skills:
Charisma (Persuasion): 05, Martial Artist: 05, Military Science: 05, Vehicles: 04, Weaponry: 05

Drawbacks:
Alter Ego (Controllable), Married (to Duo Damsel, 0 pts), Public Identity, Miscellaneous: Bouncing Boy has a very distinctive appearance in his powered form, looking like a human-sized beach ball or balloon, with a tiny round head, arms, and vestigial feet attached. This causes him no penalties in combat or character interaction, but makes it clear that he’s unusual, and for those familiar with him, they’ll know who he is and that he’s using his powers.

Design Notes

This writeup harmonizes the Pre-Crisis and Pre-Zero Hour (Five Year Gap) versions of the character, which are basically identical anyway. I’ve also used Alter Ego for his powers, rather than giving him a mangled version of Stretching or Shape Change like his published writeups from Mayfair used.
In previous Mayfair writeups, BB could also use his APs of Skin Armour or Shape Change to break grapples. I chose not to represent it, b/c I’ve never seen him use his powers that way – it struck me as an attempt to make his powers just that bit more useful. But I think they’re useful enough as is – if silly looking.

A version of Bouncing Boy could make it as a 38th Lore Knight candidate, don't you thinK?  

Crikey, you're all over the place with the last few posts!

Our house ruled game 'fixes' the problem of characters in the same columns. Supergirl is an adult and the Solar Sustenance omission on SB and Mon El sounds very much like a mistake. The fix of our house rules is that we compare AP vs AP rather than columns of APs grouped against each other.

Appreciate the Lore Knights and after the 12 are filled I would expect some of the extra to be used because not all the Lore Knights are likely to survive the war.

The World at War Sourcebook is the best one made for the DC Heroes Game. I love it. The Legion Vol 1 book is the first sourcebook I bought and the characters, whilst pre Crisis, are a mish mash of staggeringly powerful and weak. A magic blast of 11APs and a multi attack would wipe out loads of them.

Own (or have owned and sold) Star Opera. I loved the old FGU games. Another favourite was Starships and Spacemen but Star Trek/Military gaming doesn't work well in my opinion. All my players would ignore orders and go 'off piste' to do their own thing while flipping the bird to Captains, Admirals and boards of enquiry.

Bouncing Boy is one of those useless Legionnaires who would sometimes save the day thanks to the writer but he's one of those wacky/weird/strange characters who passed out the legions mass of heavy hitters. Fun sometimes though!

Writeups.org is decent enough but has a lot of house rules that are tough to keep track of. Powered Skills? Not sure on that one, would have to read up on it. Does that mean his skill only works when his powers are being used? Makes sense. Skills in our house rules are far more useful than the game as written. Dodging (as written) takes up your Dice Action and gives him an OV of 18 which is useful but in Legion levels pretty hopeless.

Internet has been behaving lately, fast to post and load pages. Mind you, it seems to fluctuate and a week ago there was maintenance going on so I couldn't log in at all. This is a free forum but I am mindful that if they yank it I would be devastated to lose all we've done! if there is a paid option to preserve our gaming way of life I'll look into it. In the meantime I periodically back up the forum on a archiving program called WinHTTrack Website Copier. Ages old but seemingly does the trick. if there is a better option I'm all ears!

Don't think too deeply into how Prof Wynde nearly bought the farm! RPGs are challenging but the death rate in supers game is non existent compared to fantasy games. I don't think Fantasy play by posts would have the longevity of our game as players get attached to characters and they could buy the farm in every fight with just one iffy die roll. Hero Points in this game give a last ditch defence and that's something fantasy rpgs might benefit from.

Dunno how you find the time to play online games. My gaming life is nonexistent as far as computers go unless with my son. Speaking of which I'm having my youngest son over tonight so posting will slow over tonight/tomorrow.

Hope I covered some of the points, a lot to touch on!

Dunno how you find the time to play online games. My gaming life is nonexistent as far as computers go unless with my son. Speaking of which I'm having my youngest son over tonight so posting will slow over tonight/tomorrow.

Hope I covered some of the points, a lot to touch on!




Lots and lots of spare time at work until we are finally free to see clients face to face again, is how I do it. And the Governor has basically told us not to expect to be let loose any earlier than January.

The LSH like the JLA has a wide range of powers. Let's see, we got a guy who flies and uses medieval weapons, a guy with a bow with gadget arrows, a guy who punches people and uses gadgets, then a guy who moves faster than light, four+ superstrong people, guy with the "most powerful weapon in the universe" and others. Though the LSH were set up as most of them only having one power so probably a bit weaker than the JLA. But even weak powered characters can be interesting if well-written.

Powered Skills is actually something in BOH2. Forget if it is an optional rule or an advantage. Not sure of the advantages of using such things though I guess technically Miss Victory is using Charisma as a powered skill.

Also Yahoo Groups are shutting down in mid-December so groups over there, some of them are moving over to Groups.IO.

https://groups.io/

May want to look into it if it looks like this place might shut down too someday.

There is a free version and monthly fee version.

Some odds and ends


FUN/INTERESTING POWERS AND ADVANTAGES I MAY SOMEDAY TRY OR NOT
 
1.     1.  AREA KNOWLEDGE – PRETTY DARN EXPENSIVE
2.      2.  LANGUAGES – 5 PTS TO SPEAK, READ AND WRITE ALL LANGUAGES FROM NATIVE GROUP.  10 PTS TO SPEAK, READ AND WRITE ALL LANGUAGES FROM NON-SPEAKER GROUP [MISS VISTORY IS RUSSIAN.  SO HERS IS EUROPEAN 3.  ENGLISH IS UNDER EUROPEAN 1].  5 PTS FOR ONE LANGUAGE S/R/W FROM NON-SPEAKER GROUP.
3.      3.  LEADER – NOT SURE WHY THIS IS AN ADVANTAGE INSTEAD OF DISADVANTATE SINCE YOU GIVE UP YOUR HP TO ANOTHER CHARACTER FOR THEM TO USE AND YOU GET NO BENEFIT FROM IT.  NO DIRECT BONUS OR POSITIVE ADJUSTMENT IF YOU DO IT.  OF COURSE, IT MIGHT KEEP ANOTHER CHARACTER ALIVE OR AT LEAST CONSCIOUS
4.      4.  RITUAL – A CHEAP BUT CONFUSING WAY TO HAVE SORCERY?
5.      5.  SIDEKICK – HARD TO HAVE A LOW LEVEL CHARACTER HAVE ONE. COSTS 1/3 TOTAL POINTS TO MAKE THE CHARACTER.  WOULD HELP WITH TEAM ATTACK BUT WOULD HAVE TO WAIT ON SIDEKICK TO DO IT.    EXAMPLE: 

dEXDex  3              [14]        STR 3     [12]        BODY 3
INT 3      [14]        WILL 3                   MIND 3
INFL 3    [14]        AURA 3                 SPIRIT 3
= 114
 
SKILLS: 5 ACROBATICS [BC15, 7FC=43], 5 MARTIAL ARTS [BC25, FC7=53]
= 210/3= 70HP TO HAVE THIS BASIC SIDEKICK
6.     

6. STABILIZATION – EXPENSIVE BUT MIGHT BE WORTH IT
7.      

7.ADAPTION – COSTLY, NOT SURE IF IT WOULD BE A GOOD POWER THOUGH.
8.     8.  ANIMAL MIMICRY – OK FOR LOW LEVEL GAME BUT NO STATS OR POWERS GO ABOVE 7
9.      9.  Bomb with controllable blast radius
10.  10.  Cell rot with aging bonus – nasty, requires touch
11.11.   Chemical attack – Mace basically, good to help with a follow up attack of another kind
12.  12.  Cold immunity – cold weather and cold attacks
13.  13.  Color – not really useful in combat but has advantages for spying and stuff
14. 14.  DEFENSIVE ADAPTION – WONKY BUT USEFUL AT HIGHT LEVELS WITH REGENERATION ADDED
15.  15. DUMB LUCK - EXPENSIVE BUT CAN ADD TO A CHARACTER’S ATTACKS AV OR EV
16. 16.  ENCHANTMENT – USE IT WITH A SIDEKICK?
17.  17. GLUE
18.  18.  GRAVITY DECREASE COMBINED WITH GLIDING, SORT OF EXPENSIVE WAY TO MOVE AROUND
19.  19.  GRAVITY INCREASE – BASICALLY STAR BOY
20.  20. GROWTH – MIN 5 APS FOR SWEEP ATTACK
21.   21. ILLUSION – HAS POSSIBILITIES, 10 APS MAKES A 10 AP FIRE BREATHING DRAGON FOR DAMAGE – MANDRAKE THE MAGICIAN HAS THIS
22.  22.  MIMIC – NEED SOME HIGH STATS TO WORK WITH THIS
23.  23. MOLECULAR CHAMELEON – ABSORBING MAN’S POWER
24.  24.  PROBABILITY CONTROL – HAS POSSIBILITIES, NEED TEAMMATE OR SIDEKICK FOR BEST AFFECT
25.   25. SENSORY BLOCK – PHANTOM LADY’S POWER OF BLINDING FOES
26.  26. SONIC BEAM – A BIT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN ENERGY ATTACK WITH THE ADDITION OF BEING ABLE TO MAKE INANTIMATE OBJECTS EXPLODE.  ADD WITH SHOUTING?
27.27.   SUSPENSION – TIME TRAVEL THE HARD WAY
28.  

28. POWERED SKILLS – GOOD WAY TO SAVE 5 hp, ESPECIALLY MARTIAL ARTS AND ACROBATICS.  ALTER EGO COULD HAVE THOSE SKILLS BUT NOT NON-POWERD FORM

29.  Mental Illusion - much like illusion but only one person.

After a work/kids/girlfriend weekend (and nowhere near a laptop, sadly) I should be a) back up to speed tonight and b) able to update better this week as I'm on afternoons which means I can't see anyone else so it leaves more time to RPG

Apologies for the delay, this lack of time thing has been going on for a month or so now, but tends to come in occasional waves whereas August/September I was rattling posts out like crazy. Go figure.

Cheers, Paul

LOL! We all have weeks like that where nothing seems to go your way.

The Wold Newton family is a literary concept derived from a form of crossover fiction developed by the American science fiction writer Philip José Farmer.



This is interesting and probably has no real bearing on our stories but maybe you can pick and choose from it?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wold_Newton_family

Origins of the WN family

In real life a meteorite, called the Wold Cottage meteorite, fell near Wold Newton, Yorkshire, England, on December 13, 1795. Farmer suggested in two fictional biographies, Tarzan Alive: A Definitive Biography of Lord Greystoke (1972) and Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life (1973) that this meteorite caused genetic mutations in the occupants of two passing coaches due to ionization. Many of their descendants were thus endowed with extremely high intelligence and strength, as well as an exceptional capacity and drive to perform good or, as the case may be, evil deeds. The progeny of these travelers are purported to have been the real-life originals of fictionalized characters, both heroic and villainous, over the last few hundred years.

Members of the WN family

As well as Tarzan and Doc Savage, both Lord Peter Wimsey and Sherlock Holmes are descendants of the original families. Other popular characters included by Farmer as members of the Wold Newton family are Solomon Kane; Captain Blood; The Scarlet Pimpernel; Sherlock Holmes's nemesis Professor Moriarty; Phileas Fogg; The Time Traveller (main character of The Time Machine by H. G. Wells); Allan Quatermain; A. J. Raffles; Professor Challenger; Richard Hannay; Bulldog Drummond; the evil Fu Manchu and his adversary, Sir Denis Nayland Smith; G-8; The Shadow; Sam Spade; Doc Savage's cousin Patricia Savage and one of his five assistants, Monk Mayfair; The Spider; Nero Wolfe; Mr. Moto; The Avenger; Philip Marlowe; James Bond; Lew Archer; Travis McGee; Monsieur Lecoq; and Arsène Lupin.

A biography, Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, was written by Philip José Farmer in the 1970s, who (in this book, and his earlier Tarzan Alive) uncovered many hitherto-unknown details about Doc's life, including his parentage and familial relationships to Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes, Fu Manchu and James Bond (among many others). Farmer, unlike some other Savage scholars, identifies certain of the pulp novels as fictional.
Doc Savage's father was Clark Savage, Sr, whose real name Farmer stated was James Clarke Wildman. Farmer also identified Doc's mother as Arronaxe Larsen.

In Tarzan Alive, Philip José Farmer identifies the elder Savage with James Wilder, the illegitimate son of the Duke of Holdernesse or Greyminster (i.e. the sixth Duke of Greystoke). Savage's baptismal name is given as "James Clarke Wildman", and his mother is identified as Patricia Clarke Wildman. Farmer also names Savage's wife - Doc Savage's mother - as Arronaxe Larsen. Although neither Tarzan Alive nor Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life make any reference to The Savage Gentleman, it is interesting to note that in Wylie's book Stone's bizarre behaviour is the direct result of his being abandoned by his wife, Nellie Larsen.
Farmer inserted references to the adventures of Clark Savage, Sr. in his translation and expansion of the novel Ironcastle by J.H. Rosny.

Patricia Clarke Wildman is the name given by Philip José Farmer to the mistress of the Duke of Holdernesse in the Sherlock Holmes story "The Adventure of the Priory School". Their liaison produced the Duke's illegitimate son James Wilder, and she is said to have died following the child's birth.
In Tarzan Alive, Mr. Farmer identifies the Duke as William Cecil Clayton, 6th Duke of Greystoke, and "Wilder" as James Clarke Wildman, better known as Clark Savage, Sr, the father of Doc Savage. He also asserts that Patricia Clarke Wildman descended from John Shute Barrington, Viscount Ardglass, but does not address this topic further. In Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, he identifies Patricia Clarke Wildman, H.G. Wells's The Time Traveller, and Alex Savage as children of Sir Patrick Clarke Wildman and Mavice, a daughter of Sir Percy Blakene


Wold Newton Family

---

The Wold Newton Family are sixteen people who were present at the Wold Newton Meteorite strike in 1795, and their descendents. In his book Tarzan Alive Philip José Farmer theorized that the witnesses to the meteorite strike received doses of ionizing radiation released as the rock hit the earth, and that the remarkable abilities and faculties of many of their descendents can be traced to a genetic mutation resulting from that instance of irradiation.
Members of the Wold Newton Family generally possess greatly enhanced intelligence and strength, as well as an exceptional capacity and drive to perform good deeds (or, in a few cases such as Professor Moriarty and Fu Manchu, evil).

Contents

[show]

The Wold Newton Family, 1795-1901

See main article and list
A family tree published in Tarzan Alive identifies the core members of the Wold Newton Family, together with other related ancestors who were not themselves descended from witnesses to the meteorite strike - and who are, therefore, somewhat paradoxically, not themselves members of the Wold Newton Family.

The Fabulous Family Tree of Doc Savage

See main article and list
A family tree by Farmer, published in his follow-up to Tarzan Alive, Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, drawing on his earlier research into the Wold Newton Family. Once again, the genealogy includes people who are not technically members of the Wold Newton Family itself.

Arronaxe Larsen
Arronaxe Larsen was the mother of Doc Savage according to the researches of Philip José Farmer, as discussed in Tarzan Alive. She was the daughter of Wolf Larsen and Arronaxe Land.
It is not clear whether Farmer was familiar with the novel The Savage Gentleman by Philip Wylie, which has been suggested as an inspiration for the character of Doc Savage - or, if you prefer, a satire on Doc and his father. However, it is interesting to note that the mother of the Doc Savage-figure is named "Nellie Larsen".
The original Doc Savage novels say little about his mother or of her marriage to Clark Savage, Sr save that she died shortly after giving birth to their son.




Here is a fictional family tree linking many pulp and literary figures:

more confusing timelines and families







 

 


From March 1933 to Summer 1949, Street & Smith published 181 issues of Doc Savage Magazine, carrying the byline of Kenneth Robeson. Actually, most of the novels were written by Lester Dent, with some being contributed by Norman Danberg, Alan Hathway, and William Bogart. In Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, Philip José Farmer compiled a chronology of the 181 supersagas.



This chronology merely constitutes the addition of stories and novels not included in Farmer’s original chronology; the two chronologies should be read together for a complete picture. A few Doc Savage pulp novels with the dates from Farmer’s chronology are included here in order to provide referents for the newly-included adventures.



Integrated into Farmer’s framework of the original pulp novels is a chronology of every other comic, short story & novel appearance of Doc Savage or his aides of which I am aware, not including the Street & Smith comics of the 1940s. I have included material that was authorized and licensed by Condé Nast Publications, Inc. Also included are appearances of Doc where he is not named as such, as in The Rocketeer comics or the science-fiction novella, Who Goes There? Fan fiction is not included. The timeline also attempts to reconcile conflicting information provided in the licensed sources and create a streamlined chronology of the life of Doctor Clark Savage, Jr.

---

1888

Birth of Theodore Marley "Ham" Brooks, one of Doc Savage's five assistants.

1894

Birth of Andrew Blodgett "Monk" Mayfair, nephew of Professor George Edward Challenger, and one of Doc Savage's fabulous five.

1896

Colonel Richard Henry Savage defeats a plot of Doctor Nikola to loose a plague upon the world (see Doom Dynasty). Colonel Savage is the adoptive father of Clark Savage, Sr.

May 1901

Clark Savage, Sr., the illegitimate son of William Cecil Clayton, the sixth duke of Greystoke, is implicated in the kidnapping of his younger half-brother, the legitimate son of the sixth duke, as described by Watson and Doyle in the Sherlock Holmes story The Adventure of the Priory School. After these events, Savage and his wife Arronaxe Larsen flee England; a guilt-ridden Savage vows to dedicate his life and that of his unborn child to fighting evil. Click here for a brief article on Doc Savage's father and the Greystoke lineage.

November 12, 1901

Clark "Doc" Savage, Jr., is born on the schooner Orion in a cove off the northern tip of Andros Island, Bahamas. Doc's parents are Clark Savage, Sr. and Arronaxe Larsen. Doc's maternal grandparents are Wolf Larsen (The Sea Wolf) and Arronaxe Land, who is the daughter of Ned Land (20,000 Leagues Under the Sea). As part of his training to combat crime and evil, Clark, over the years, will study various disciplines with Sherlock Holmes, Arsène Lupin, Richard Wentworth, Dr. John Thorndyke, Craig Kennedy, Kent Allard, Harry Houdini, and Tarzan.

June-July 1908

Doc's mother is killed in Siberia. (The Asteroid Terror, DC Comics’ Doc Savage, Volume 2, issues 22-24.) This account differs from Farmer’s, which claims that Doc’s mother drowned in 1902.

1914

Birth of Patricia Savage, Doc Savage's cousin.

1915

Birth of Princess Monja F’Teema in Hidalgo.

1917-1918

Dr. Clark Savage, Sr., and Hareton Ironcastle mount a second expedition to The Lost World discovered by Professor Challenger and Lord John Roxton.

March 31-July 1918

Escape From Loki
Doc meets his future aides, Ham Brooks, Monk Mayfair, Renny Renwick, Johnny Littlejohn, and Long Tom Roberts, in the prison camp Loki. (Novel by Philip José Farmer.)
There are three masterful articles on this topic by Christopher Carey: Farmer's Escape from Loki: A Closer Look; Loki in the Sunlight; and The Green Eyes Have It - Or Are They Blue? or Another Case of Identity Recased. Regarding Mr. Carey's proposition in the latter article that Captain Nemo, Professor Moriarty, Wolf Larsen, Baron Karl von Hessel (Escape From Loki), Baron Karl (Fortress of Solitude), and Dr. Karl Linningen (Up From Earth's Center) are all the same person, the evidence he gathers is vast. However, Moriarty's career beyond Reichenbach is well-documented, and argues against him being the same person as Wolf Larsen. (Interestingly, Wold Newton investigator Dennis Power independently discovered the Moriarty-Larsen connection and revealed that it is a father-son relationship.) Nevertheless, there is nothing to argue against Wolf Larsen being the same person as Baron von Hessel and Baron Karl. In fact, von Hessel, when revealing his age-delaying elixir to Doc, states that he was born in 1858, which is close enough to the hypothesized time-frame for the birth of Larsen to be taken as accurate. That von Hessel is actually Doc's grandfather makes the battle of wills and testing of young Clark in Escape from Loki all the more remarkable.

July 1918

The Olympic Peril (Chapter 2)
After their escape from the first prison camp Loki, Doc and the boys are recaptured and placed in a second camp of the same name, but quickly escape. (DC Comics’ Doc Savage annual 1.)

September-November 1918

Savage, Jr., meets his cousin, Lieutenant John "Korak" Drummond-Clayton, while flying during the Argonne operation.

April 1919

Nine months after Doc Savage's escape from the prison camp Loki, a child is born to Lily Bugov, the Countess Idivzhopu. The child is raised as the son of Baron Karl von Hessel (Doc's grandfather, who will go by the moniker Baron Karl by the time of Fortress of Solitude). However, given young Clark Savage's intimate encounter with the Countess Idivzhopu in July 1918, there can be little doubt as to the true parentage of this child, who will grow up to menace the world, not to mention his own hated father, as "John Sunlight."

Wold Newton researcher Christopher Carey, in his article Loki in the Sunlight, gathers and documents an incredible amount of evidence about the Countess, von Hessel, and Doc's arch-enemy "John Sunlight." Virtually the only piece of Mr. Carey's article with which I disagree is his conclusion that John Sunlight is either Lily Bugov posing as a man, or that she underwent a sex-change operation to become Sunlight. Mr. Carey evocatively points out both Bugov's and Sunlight's unusually long fingers. Keeping in mind all the physical similarities between Bugov and Sunlight that Mr. Carey documents, as well as the behavioral differences, I am lead to a different conclusion. I believe Sunlight is Lily Bugov's son.
However, if Sunlight were born in April of 1919, he would be only eighteen years old in August of 1937 (Fortress of Solitude). This could pose a problem, in terms of his believability as a villain. On the other hand, Baron von Hessel/Baron Karl has been mentoring him in the ways of evil for those eighteen years. And Doc made a believable hero at age sixteen, just as many other Wold Newtonites started their careers early in life. There is a statement that, "He was not a young man...," but I believe this to be blatant misdirection on Lester Dent's part, in order to help Doc conceal the terrible secret of Sunlight's parentage. In short, Sunlight's age is not an insurmountable issue. (It is interesting to note that, based on textual evidence in Fortress of Solitude, Sunlight escaped from the Siberian gulag at approximately age sixteen or seventeen -- the same age at which his father escaped from a similar inescapable prison camp.)
Further, I do not believe that Farmer would have noted the sexual encounter between Clark and Lily without reason. Sunlight, like Doc, emits a strange sound in times of excitement or stress, although Sunlight's takes the form of a low, evil growl, rather than Doc's cool, exotic trilling. Sunlight's inhuman strength, derived from unspecified sources, and his incredible stamina and will power, a result of his magnificent brain, are extensively described in Fortress of Solitude. The derivation of Sunlight's formidable intelligence is easily understood once it is revealed that he is of the Moriarty lineage, as well as that of the Savages-Claytons. In my estimation, the physical similarities between Countess Idivzhopu and Sunlight, coupled with Sunlight's Savage-like strength, vocal habits, and brain power, undoubtedly point to a familial relationship, one made possible by Doc's indiscretion with the Countess.

1925

Who Goes There?
Clark Savage, Jr., joins an Antarctic expedition as meteorologist and second-in-command (McReady, "a bronze giant of a man"; the theory that McReady is Savage was first proposed by Albert Tonik in A Doc Savage Adventure Rediscovered, published in Doc Savage Club Reader number four, 1978).   Savage and the other members of the expedition must fight for their lives when they discover a Thing (from another world). Savage does not have his M.D. yet (according to Farmer, he got his M.D. in 1926). (Classic science fiction novella by John W. Campbell, Jr., most recently published in the collection The Antarktos Cycle, Chaosium, 1999, as The Thing From Another World.)

1929

At the Mountains of Madness
The leader of the Miskatonic University expedition to Antarctica, Professor Dyer, and Professor William Harper "Johnny" Littlejohn, one of Doc Savage's five assistants, are one and the same person, in this novel by H.P. Lovecraft. (Recently reprinted in the anthology The Antarktos Cycle, Chaosium, 1999.)

January 1931

Devil's Thoughts
Johnny Littlejohn, one of Doc Savage's five assistants, is an archaeology professor at Miskatonic University in Arkham, Massachusetts. (Millennium Comics’ Doc Savage mini-series.)

March-April

The Man of Bronze
Doc Savage and his five associates begin their fight against the forces of evil. First appearance of Princess Monja. (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent, under the "house" name Kenneth Robeson.)

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1932

King Kong
Although Doc is not in on this adventure, he financed the expedition, and returns to New York in time to witness its final events.

April 1932

Brand of the Werewolf
First appearance of Doc's cousin, Pat Savage. (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

April 1932

The Feathered Octopus (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

May 1932

After King Kong Fell
Doc and his boys, along with The Shadow and Margo Lane, witness the aftermath of Kong's plunge from the Empire State Building (click here for more info on Margo). (Short story by Philip José Farmer.)

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April 1933

Doom on Thunder Island (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 1.)

May

A Most Singular Writ of Habeas Corpus (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 3.)

May

The Inferno Scheme (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 3.)

May-June

The events of Tarzan's Quest, in which Tarzan, Jane, and a few others acquire Kavuru immortality pills. After this adventure, Tarzan sends a sample to his cousin, Doc Savage, for analysis. Savage is able to synthesize the compound, after which both Tarzan and Savage have access to a supply for themselves, their families, and comrades.

June

The Earth Wreckers (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 5.)

July-August

Meteor Menace (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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June 1934

Fear Cay (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

July

The Hell Reapers (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 2.)

Mid July

Death in Silver (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

Late July

Python Isle (This novel by Will Murray, under the house name of Kenneth Robeson, takes place in 1934, just after Death in Silver.)

August

The Sea Magician (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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March 1935

The Majii (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

April

The Conflagration Man
Doc's first teaming with The Shadow. (DC Comics’ Doc Savage ongoing series, issues 17 & 18, and issues 5 & 6 of DC’s The Shadow Strikes!)

May

Spook Hole (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

May

The Jade Ogre (This novel by Will Murray takes place in Spring, 1935, after Spook Hole.)

May

Pat Savage: Family Blood (One issue published by Millennium Comics.)

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Mid October 1935

The Vanisher (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

Late October

White Eyes (This novel by Will Murray takes place after The Midas Man, which was "some months ago" (June 1935).)

Late October

The Metal Master (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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November 1935-February 1936

The South Pole Terror (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

February

Ghost Pirates from the Beyond (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 4.)

February

Curse of the Fire God (Mini-series published by Dark Horse Comics.)

February-March

Resurrection Day (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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May-July 1936

Ost (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

July

The Olympic Peril (Chapter 1) (DC Comics’ Doc Savage annual 1.)

July-August

Repel (Aka The Deadly Dwarf. Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

August

The Olympic Peril (Chapter 3) (DC Comics’ Doc Savage annual 1.)

August-September

The Sea Angel (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

September

The Golden Peril (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

September

The Living Fire Menace (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

September

The Sky Stealers (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 6.)

September

Devil on the Moon (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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Late December 1936

The Green Death (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

January 1937

The Whistling Wraith (A new novel by Will Murray, which takes place a few weeks after The Motion Menace (October 1936).)

February

The Yellow Cloud (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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April 1937

The Boss of Terror (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

May

The Air Lord (Issues 19-21 of DC Comics’ Doc Savage, Volume 2.)

May

The Case of the Shrieking Skeletons
The Shadow and Doc Savage cross paths again. (Mini-series published by Dark Horse Comics.)

June

The Forgotten Realm (This new novel by Will Murray takes place in summertime, and several months after Devil on the Moon (September 1936).)

July

The Mountain Monster (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

Late July

Tunnel Terror (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

August

Fortress of Solitude
First appearance of villain John Sunlight. (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

September

The Flaming Falcons (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

October

The Devil Genghis
Second appearance of John Sunlight. (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

October

Doc saves Earth from a collision with the asteroid Hermes (The Asteroid Terror, DC Comics’ Doc Savage, Volume 2, issues 22-24).

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April 1938

The Other World (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

April

The Rocketeer
Cliff Secord finds Doc’s rocket pack. (Graphic novel by Dave Stevens.)

May

The Monarch of Armageddon
John Sunlight and Princess Monja appear in this adventure. (This mini-series written by Mark Ellis was published by Millennium Comics and takes place just after The Rocketeer.)

June

Hex (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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Doc Savage: Archenemy of Evil After receiving a telegram from Doc Savage, Sherlock Holmes, in retirement in Sussex, refers to Doc as the greatest student of detection he ever had. Holmes and Watson continue their reminiscences, remembering that they first encountered Doc's father, Savage, Sr., during the case which Watson recorded as The Adventure of the Priory School, which case unfortunately resulted in Savage, Sr.'s expedient flight from England. (Screenplay by Philip José Farmer for the second, unmade, Doc Savage feature film. Although Farmer's screenplay dates these events during Christmastime, 1936, this does not fit into Farmer's own Chronology from Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life. Finding an available slot in Rick Lai's Chronology of Bronze, I have placed these events during Christmastime, 1935.)

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June 1939

The Flying Goblin (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

July

Doom Dynasty
Doc Savage fights against the evil villain Doctor Nikola, who somehow had found access to the Kavuru-Siliphium life-extension elixir. Nikola is killed at the conclusion of the adventure. (Mini-series published by Millennium Comics.)

August

The Purple Dragon (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

August

Devils of the Deep (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

August

The Awful Egg (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

September

The Crimson Plague (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 8.)

September-December

The Golden Man (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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May 1941

The Rustling Death (Original pulp novel by Alan Hathway.)

June

The Mayan Mutations (Marvel Comics’ Doc Savage Magazine 7.)

June

The Laugh of Death (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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July 1945

Se-Pah-Poo (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

July

The Discord Makers (prologue) (DC Comics’ Doc Savage, Volume 2, issue 1, pp. 1-8.)

July

The Screaming Man (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

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February 1948

The Red Spider (This adventure by Lester Dent was not included in Farmer's original chronology.)

1948

Marriage of Pat Savage and Rex Hazzard.

November 1948

Up From Earth's Center (Original pulp novel by Lester Dent.)

January 1949

The Frightened Fish (In this new novel by Will Murray, Japan surrendered over three years ago. It is a sequel to The Red Spider, which was almost a year ago, and The Screaming Man, which was over three years ago.)

1949

Doc Savage secretly marries Mayan Princess Monja F'Teema.

1949

Birth of Rex Hazzard, Jr., son of Captain Rex Hazzard and Pat Savage.

July-November 1949

Flight Into Fear (This new novel by Will Murray is a sequel to The Red Spider.)

December 1949

Miles Morgenthal kidnaps Long Tom and subjects him to mind-control gas, causing him to betray Doc (The Mind Molder and The Heritage of Doc Savage).

January 1950

The Heritage of Doc Savage
Doc, battling Heinz Wessel, disappears into an alien transporter and is thought dead by his aides. Monja and the unborn Clark III go to Hidalgo. (Issue 1 of the Doc Savage mini-series published by DC Comics. The August 1945 date is incorrect.)

May 1950

Birth of Clark Savage III. Rumors spread that Monja died in childbirth.

1950

Doc's aides hire Beau Faulkner's father to impersonate Doc. The charade doesn’t last long, and Doc’s "retirement" is announced to the world. Only Doc’s aides know that he is really dead (which, in fact, he really isn’t).

1951

For unknown reasons, Monja sends baby Clark III to New York, and Doc's aides, believing the reports of Monja’s death, raise him.

1958

Doc’s aides run out of Kavuru age-delaying elixir (see Farmer's Doc Savage: His Apocalyptic Life, p. 39) and begin to age normally. The elixir, first administered in 1933, has bought them an extra 25 years of life.

August 1966

The Heritage of Doc Savage
Death of Clark III. (Issue 2, pp. 1-10 of the Doc Savage mini-series published by DC Comics.)

May 1967

Birth of Clark "Chip" Savage IV, grandson of Doc Savage.

1968

Birth of Pam Hazzard, granddaughter of Pat Savage and Captain Rex Hazzard.

September 1970

Invisible Death
The second Prince Zarkon adventure, in which Zarkon visits the Cobalt Club and consults with fellow member Ham Brooks.

April 1971

The Volcano Ogre
In Prince Zarkon's third adventure, he again goes to the Cobalt Club, where he meets with Col. John "Renny" Renwick.

June 1978

The Earth-Shaker
Patricia Savage Hazzard (cousin of Doc Savage), who married pulp hero Captain Rex Hazzard, makes a cameo appearance in the fourth Prince Zarkon adventure.

1979

Horror Wears Blue
Prince Zarkon and his Omega Crew, in London, briefly encounter Doc Savage's aide Monk Mayfair.

1985

Jake Speed
Would-be adventure hero Jake Speed refers to Doc Savage, commenting on his retirement.

Summer 1987

The Heritage of Doc Savage
Doc returns in the alien transporter and defeats Wessel’s scheme. In addition to Ham, Monk, Renny, and Johnny, the team now includes new members Shoshonna Gold and Beau Faulkner. (Issue 2, pp. 11-27, issue 3, and issue 4, pp. 1-26, of the Doc Savage mini-series published by DC Comics.)

December 1987

The Heritage of Doc Savage (epilogue)
Doc belatedly realizes that Long Tom betrayed him back in 1949, and forgives him. (Issue 4, pp. 26-27, of the Doc Savage mini-series published by DC Comics.)

1988

For most of 1988, Doc retrains himself and trains his new aides. With Doc’s return, his aides and family once again have access to the life-extension elixir, which actually begins to slowly reverse the aging process in Ham, Monk, Johnny, and Renny.

December 1988

The Discord Makers (Issues 1-6 of DC Comics’ Doc Savage, Volume 2.)

Had planned to update everything yesterday... unfortunately my ISP (SKY) had other ideas with an afternoon/evening/morning long outage. Nice! It's the first time I've had such a long outage without a dongle/mobile internet backup (my phone provider is *marginally* better than the last but still absolutely useless where I live...) so apologies for being AWOL! It wasn't planned! I used my time instead to churn out a load of bad guys for David M/Dave E to beat up in the battle for the White House. Speaking of which, the US politics makes ours look civilised and organised, even though it is (for the most part) an utter shambles with a choice between a bad party or a worse one.

On top of that we just went into a second lockdown in the UK and seeing friends/family is a pipe dream for another month. What a world we live in. Stay safe folks.

LOL!  Looks like we are advancing a number of storylines quickly today since 3 of us seem to be on at roughly the same time.  Nice day for all!  

Just depends on which way my shifts drop as to how soon/often I can update. All being well I can update several times tomorrow and first will be Ruby City adventures. Hopefully my schedule allows me to run the Miss Victory experiment...

Be interested to see how she does against the Hulk too. Or the Silver Surfer.  

And tomorrow being Veteran's Day for us [Remembrance Day for you folks?], I get the day off to scan for new messages most of the day.

Got my son with me yesterday and today so it's been near constant rocket league, talisman, watching the simpsons, eating junk food and so on. Normal service should resume tomorrow afternoon. In other news I've been struggling to find a mortgage this year with covid, small problem compared to the problems other have I know but ... I've sorted one out! Had all but given up and in between updates on Friday morning thought I'd try a Mortgage broker who was quick to get back to me by Friday afternoon and I'm now house hunting! Since I split up from the wife nearly five years ago I've been renting but decided last year to get back into a house of my own and was on track to do it by june this year with a hefty deposit until covid struck.

So I've got 10 days off work, daytime will mostly be spent house hunting (at least checking areas out before viewing anyway) and evenings for updates. Hope y'all are keeping well

Cheers, Paul

Good luck with the house hunting. Being single and older, I find it very nice living in my apartment where maintenance comes and handles every little problem I have rather than having to either do it myself or pay someone to do it for me. But lots of other folks love living in their own homes, less chance of finding yourself having to move if the apartment complex gets sold to become a strip mall or something.

Yeah been renting for nearly five years now and it has its ups and downs. Last place was a nightmare with kids from the neighbourhood treating my house as a hang out and I needed sleep for shifts. This place hasn't had money spent on it for years and is very drafty so the bills are high plus to go out anywhere is a drive or taxi and the costs add up.

Just found a place today, I'm hoping its still available when I call in the morning. 5 bedroom, integral garage, gardens, nice area for a (relatively) bargain price. Must be a catch somewhere or it may have already gone so not getting my hopes up but if it is still there I'm going for it! Might cost me extra per month but the difference between the so-so in not great areas and the dream house in decent area is something I will find room in my budget for, all being well!

I don't need 5 bedrooms but I'm 49 y/old. Plan is to pay this thing off as much as I can then downsize when I'm older with a pile of cash in the bank and a house to give to the kids....

Playing catch up as back at work so may be tomorrow before I get rattling off updates at my usual (well, aspired to) pace but will see what I can do. Cheers, Paul

Sorry haven't posted yet in all forums. Bit under the weather the last few days. Hope to post to them all tomorrow.

No worries mate, get well soon! Will update in the morning GMT time

Just a quick heads up. Weekends are always slow/very hard for me to update on but more so this as working night shifts. However I hope to be able to update tonight/tomorrow morning if I get a chance. Taking a laptop to work and assuming I'm not knackered I'll see what I can get done

Understand if anyone is slower to post/can't post this week, being xmas and all