Chat About the Games Part Two

Admin wrote:One can but hope ...

Cheers, Paul

Keep breathing, a paper bag can help ;-). Seriously I can hear your dilemma and the pain that goes with the fact if you in, you're all in. I think the drop in asking price is going to be a good gage of how to handle this. If they go for it, you can, if they don't well then you'll probably be glad not to have to mend and make do if they won't/don't realise how much needs doing.

Mate, we do understand and as therapeutic as it is to run this game for us, at the same time we want you to look after yourself as well. Given the exceptional circumstances, it's not exceptional to take some time to breathe and find headspace sufficient in this time.

Sj

Thanks Dave. Basically my choices are extremely limited. Borrow enough money to buy the house AND fix the faults or walk away. They accept 190k otherwise I have to walk away regardless. Tomorrow, I think I will be walking away from the sale.

I'm pretty much decided on it in fact, just need confirmation from mortgage broker one way or the other. If it's no go on the money front, deal is off. I don't think they'd take the drop in purchase price either. The sums just don't add up. I have tried to run through every scenario where I take it on as a fixer upper and it leaves me skint which just isn't worth it. I need to buy a house which doesn't need much, even if it costs more.

Had planned the updates but head fried and I should have been in bed an hour ago. Clanging headache won't quit. I guess that happens when you can't get something out of your head... Updates tomorrow (or at least later on today, it's 0102 am) and hopefully resolution to this saga.

Just an update - should be able to rattle off replies before I head out but on the hunt for houses this week. However, unlike last week I don't have to go to work for long night shifts so should be fine. Last week was the worst I've had for a while. All sorts of conflicting emotions and I figured that after five years of wanting a house then walking away only weeks before completion probably didn't help. Still, dust self off and go again. I'll get something, just need to be patient.

Admin wrote:Just an update - should be able to rattle off replies before I head out but on the hunt for houses this week. However, unlike last week I don't have to go to work for long night shifts so should be fine. Last week was the worst I've had for a while. All sorts of conflicting emotions and I figured that after five years of wanting a house then walking away only weeks before completion probably didn't help. Still, dust self off and go again. I'll get something, just need to be patient.

So much is up in the air Paul, I think you did the right thing, "better to measure twice and cut once" as they say down here. Be glad to see a post when you're ready but no pressure from me :-)

Sj

"You don't recognize Lionheart," she instead asks Fastback, leaving Lionheart to answer Thunder Woman's questions, moving closer to him. "He is one of the most powerful heroes on the planet.

ooc:  Again based on my own power level chart, since Lionheart with his power pool can get at least two powers and stats to 20 or better, that puts him in the Most Powerful category.

and ARRGGGHHHH!!!!!!  I just realized, using my personal power chart of Low [no more than one stat/power above 10], Medium [primary stats/powers between 11 and 19, only one to 20+] and powerful [at least two stats/powers at 20+] Miss Victory is indeed in the Powerful category - barely.  Using her power pool she can get her Dex and Body, both to 20, now that she raised her Body to 7 from the HP spent from last adventure.    
But that leaves her with her best attack being an 8, Martial Arts, so I'm going to say, nope, still not in the Powerful category yet.  

Probably should better refine the definition to "one of those stats/powers has to be an attack power/stat".  So if she gets her strength or mental blast to 20+, she doesn't have enough Power Pool points left to get anything else to 20, thereby leaving her still at the Medium power level.  

Lionheart could get his Str to 20+ with points in his Power Pool, so that does put him in the Powerful level for characters.   He could put both Str and Superspeed to 20 at the same time with his Power Pool.
Yep!  Much better definition for power rankings!    

Bored yet with my ramblings?

Also, I'm at work so I can't check but was 1st ed DC Heroes' Superman more powerful than 3rd ed?  I seem to remember it was but could be mis-remembering.

Will try and update as much as I can. Currently sat in a sidings as my train was cancelled (didn't even ask why, suppose I should have but the driver is always the last to know it seems).



Let's see...

Powerful... Miss Victory can start a round with 23 Dex, win initiative, use an auto action to activate Mental Blast 23, attack with that as a dice action and use an auto action to flip Dex back to 23/Body to 17. If we are comparing heavy hitters as written in the DC Heroes 2e/3e game I would put money on her being able to beat just about anyone thanks to crit blows and devastating attacks.

I would also consider buying mental attacks at zero level APs and adding to the list of powers that Power Reserve adds to. She's a brick at the moment. Street/Teen Titan level smarts, not particularly mental or mystical resistant but very capable physically and very versatile. If you can get over 20 Dex in this game (admittedly not at the Ultrahumans level but there's nothing to stop her going solo or joining a weaker group) you hit and don't get hit, at least not very often. That kind of limits her adventures because to provide a challenge you need someone very physically capable or mental/mystical and they could make things very tricky. A 450HP character could one shot her (but then again a 450HP character could one shot Superman with a magic blast, so...)

You might also have to consider that she's on her second official adventure so won't be as powerful as Lionheart who's been going for a long time (far longer than I ever ran him in the Golden Heroes game) under Dave E's stewardship. He's also been through various ups and downs and had his fair share of kickings. She's been through a lot and certainly through a rough time in the first adventure but she's still on her feet when a lot of the established Ultrahumans were flattened and some were killed...

The Prison break out was never meant to be a kobyashi maru no win scenario but it was meant to be a damage limitation exercise. There are things even the most powerful Superheroes can't do. If they never failed they'd not be very interesting. That criticism was levelled at pre crisis Superman which was why they took the decision to drop power levels across the board.

Speaking of which 1e DC Heroes Superman was Dex 26/Str 50/Body 40 (with 10 skin armour from the costume). 2e/3e Superman (the same bar a few tweaks) would last a matter of panels in a comic book from burning crazy amounts of Hero points to basically double his stats against a 'full blown' 1e Kryptonian as seen in Superman Vol 2 #22 of 1989 vintage (John Byrne at the peak of his artistic powers):

and



That's 47-49 AP strength (depending on which bad guy is throwing the punch) against Body 18. Superman would have burned through hundreds of hero points to stay conscious, no doubt about it. Quite a change from 1e to 2e/3e...

As for power level I always kind of thought...

Power Level 1 - 3-7APs depending on the kind of attack. For instance Aura of Fear 3 might sound weak but it would send ordinary crooks running in fear. 8APs is bulletproof or machine gun level strikes and would sort out ordinary unpowered bad guys with stats in the 2-4 range. This is 'Street Level'.

Power level 2 - 8-12 this is your higher than street level standard super like Luke Cage, Spiderman, Terminator (Deathstroke), Teen Titans kind of 'pre Avengers' or 'pre Justice League' type characters. They have one or two stats or powers in this range. Batman could be said to fall into this range but using our house rules he's weaker (he hits with Str 5 not Martial Artist 10) but would hold his own against Superman thanks to all those skill dice he throws around, at least until Superman took him seriously. Batman is a bad example of Street level. He costs a fortune and is more likely to be found in this or the level above.

Power level 3 - 13-19 who are your typical Avenger/Justice League types. Heck, even then according to the write ups in the 2e/3e DC heroes game you'll find most characters in power level 2. Haunt and Steeplejack fall into this level. I have had to adjust the levels because previously Haunt and Steep would be level 3 and had lower stats/powers. In a way they are the yard stick for the campaign world, with characters above them (Miss Victory, Lionheart, pretty much all the Ultrahumans, Frostbite, Battlebug and possibly Melody amongst others) and below (Prof Wynde, the Lore Knights, Kid Kinetic, the Ruby City heroes)

Power level 4 - 20 upwards and here it starts to get fuzzy. It's hard to pigeon hole Miss Victory and Lionheart because they are so versatile, especially Lionheart. By being able to move points about there's no easy was to categorise them. Frostbite is the same. Technically you could say that Battlebug is beyond a level 4 but if his Adrenaline Surge burns out (which it has done a few times now) he barely scrapes into level 3, so instead of saying he's a five he's more of a four that dips into and out of 3 and five. Straight forward? Uhhh, no. Captain Marvel and Superman as written are power level 4 but I upgraded both and they are firm PL4 now. My money is still on Lionheart and Miss Vic taking both to the cleaners and come to think of it Frostbite wouldn't have too much trouble either. He's almost as dextrous, has a 25AP attack and 25AP defence, more powers that you can easily count... He's come a long way from his Golden Heroes days...



(And that was after a few years of play)

Power Level 5 ... hmmm. I always held off any kind of hard and fast measure because you have certain characters who can do anything (Dr Manhattan, Spectre, Darkseid, Thanos, Galactus etc) and then you have characters who can take those guys on (Pre Crisis Superman, heck most of the Pre Crisis characters including the Legion of Super Heroes and Justice League and their rogues galleries). The Legion of Superheroes sourcebook has about a dozen or so characters who could move a planet if they pushed their strength. Post crisis nerfed them massively of course but if I said Power Level 5 was 30-60APs it would give some idea. A nuclear bomb is 32APs (about 100 megatons) and Lionheart was barely scratched by it. like I said, hard to pigeon hole.

So whilst I'd say the current campaign with Advent is a slog/war it is not without end. I, like you guys, get tired and need a change so with every issue I look to throw something different at you. If you as a player want to write a numbered list of preferred scenarios (David M I think you lean towards the Golden Age style stuff rather than grim/dark and Dave E towards the four colour stuff with traditional right/wrong rather than edgy shades of grey. Everyone else I am still working out) the next issue change you can have a short 'day off' from battling Advent and their schemes and go rescue cats or fight giant apes or whatever if you like. I had been planning a respite of a 'day in the life' style short adventure where barely any dice are rolled. Frostbite can finally go on that date with Catherine, Haunt catches up with Dr Praetorious and his buddy Yeoman (who has been in this game since day one), Miss Victory gets to go see her husband and Prof Wynde gets back to his magical studies etc.

With regards new players... there have been messages from people wanting to join in. I ask for details or ideas about the character... then they vanish. Then another message randomly pops up so I ask for more ideas or a background or something to go by and... they vanish again. I am reluctant to throw new players into any game that you (Dave E and M) are both part of because of your prolific posting rate. It would slow things down and scare people off. Andy I know from my time on the Marvel Universe game board and we have completed several one on one games (all whilst I've been running this board) so I know he's solid and Patrick (Kid Kinetic) ticks along at his own pace quite nicely. I can try to open the game up again (I did have a few enquiries off Facebook) but not everyone can adapt to the pacing of play by post. I think playing in several games at once with different characters helps, but makes more work for the GM and I have enough on at the moment (just started the house buying process again as of yesterday).

Phew!

I hope that answers a few questions and clears a few bits up. Miss Victory has had it rough no doubt about it, it's been a trial by fire. On the flip side running with the big dawgs (and not getting splattered) is a great way to rack up hero points to boost stats and powers. That said if you'd rather drop by from world shaking challenges to something more cerebral we can arrange for a dodgy batch of Vita Pills that sideline her from Ultrahuman duties and more mid/street level crime fighting if you want a change of pace. Lionheart did that a few years ago by splitting into Lionheart/Saladin, but he's going to have his hands full I suspect in the coming months... To say more would spoil any surprises...

Right, train driving time!

I've waffled on enough, sorry if it's too long to digest!

Cheers, Paul

Admin wrote:I hope that answers a few questions and clears a few bits up. Miss Victory has had it rough no doubt about it, it's been a trial by fire. On the flip side running with the big dawgs (and not getting splattered) is a great way to rack up hero points to boost stats and powers. That said if you'd rather drop by from world shaking challenges to something more cerebral we can arrange for a dodgy batch of Vita Pills that sideline her from Ultrahuman duties and more mid/street level crime fighting if you want a change of pace. Lionheart did that a few years ago by splitting into Lionheart/Saladin, but he's going to have his hands full I suspect in the coming months... To say more would spoil any surprises...

Right, train driving time!

I've waffled on enough, sorry if it's too long to digest!

Cheers, Paul

Paul I will answer here regards the things Dave has been saying and what you've been offering by way of a way forward so as not to clog up the other thread.

First I can't believe you dragged out that pre-DC Heroes Frostbite, wow he looks beefy but what a change. Just as an aside this is what the original looked like:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f50/20/14/34/10/frostb10.jpg

As to the current adventure, I am totally fine with it in fact I am loving it as it keeps me coming back even at times I am reading through eyes peeking out from behind my hand over face ( ) it has been a constant challenge and I love that. I've loved mixing it up with the big dogs. But Heroes go up and down in power all the time so I am happy going up as well as down. Personally, the whole Advent thing is fine with me as well, I have no problem with what is going on because at some point I am looking forward to driving them back and seeing Europe come back from the brink. It's like the situation in Frostbite's thread, I read it this morning and I am like....what!! What am I going to do and that for me is part of the fun.

So personally I am happy to go forward and see things continue until such a time as they work out. I am like the guy in a book, and not every episode is equal but I stick it out and in 10+ years of playing have never once regretted going in further. I don't like giving up on an adventure even if its tough, and Dave I know it is tough believe me I've been here from the beginning.

So I would prefer to see the current storyline through and see the back story of Advent resolved. Besides I am having so much fun with Dave Haunt and Steeplejack in the past as well - so I hope we don't get a massive reset as I want to see these disparate threads resolved, personally.

Sj

Let's see...

Powerful... Miss Victory can start a round with 23 Dex, win initiative, use an auto action to activate Mental Blast 23, attack with that as a dice action and use an auto action to flip Dex back to 23/Body to 17. If we are comparing heavy hitters as written in the DC Heroes 2e/3e game I would put money on her being able to beat just about anyone thanks to crit blows and devastating attacks

ooc: Wait! I can do that? I thought I was locked into only one change of the power pool per round? So I thought if I went with dex 23 I was stuck with Dex 23 for the full round? I can do all this changing of energy in just one round? Without having superspeed?

I played her all this time not knowing I could have done this! Heck, the whole prison thing might have gone down differently because I was keeping her locked to one power set per round as I thought that was all she could do. SO I might have to rethink her and how to play her because of this.

BTW, what stat am I using to to "hit" with Mental Blast? Is it Dex or Int or the Power level of the power itself?

Steeple_jackuk wrote:

Admin wrote:I hope that answers a few questions and clears a few bits up. Miss Victory has had it rough no doubt about it, it's been a trial by fire. On the flip side running with the big dawgs (and not getting splattered) is a great way to rack up hero points to boost stats and powers. That said if you'd rather drop by from world shaking challenges to something more cerebral we can arrange for a dodgy batch of Vita Pills that sideline her from Ultrahuman duties and more mid/street level crime fighting if you want a change of pace. Lionheart did that a few years ago by splitting into Lionheart/Saladin, but he's going to have his hands full I suspect in the coming months... To say more would spoil any surprises...

Right, train driving time!

I've waffled on enough, sorry if it's too long to digest!

Cheers, Paul

Paul I will answer here regards the things Dave has been saying and what you've been offering by way of a way forward so as not to clog up the other thread.  

First I can't believe you dragged out that pre-DC Heroes Frostbite, wow he looks beefy but what a change.  Just as an aside this is what the original looked like:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f50/20/14/34/10/frostb10.jpg

As to the current adventure, I am totally fine with it in fact I am loving it as it keeps me coming back even at times I am reading through eyes peeking out from behind my hand over face ( ) it has been a constant challenge and I love that.  I've loved mixing it up with the big dogs.  But Heroes go up and down in power all the time so I am happy going up as well as down.   Personally, the whole Advent thing is fine with me as well, I have no problem with what is going on because at some point I am looking forward to driving them back and seeing Europe come back from the brink.  It's like the situation in Frostbite's thread, I read it this morning and I am like....what!! What am I going to do and that for me is part of the fun.  

So personally I am happy to go forward and see things continue until such a time as they work out.  I am like the guy in a book, and not every episode is equal but I stick it out and in 10+ years of playing have never once regretted going in further.  I don't like giving up on an adventure even if its tough, and Dave I know it is tough believe me I've been here from the beginning.  

So I would prefer to see the current storyline through and see the back story of Advent resolved.  Besides I am having so much fun with Dave Haunt and Steeplejack in the past as well - so I hope we don't get a massive reset as I want to see these disparate threads resolved, personally.  

Sj

I like Advent too, most times, and the Haunt/Steeplejack thread is currently my favorite with Prof Wynde being second. I'm kind of hoping as H & S move forward in time, they land in WW2 and meet Prof. Wynde and Wonderman and we team up before all four of us jumping further into time. I'm just planning on retiring in about 9-11 years in RL and I don't want to be still fighting the Advent when I retire, hope that they are defeated by then, especially since once retired I will be checking this game out 3-4 times A DAY!! Since I won't have anything better to do with my time.

The Miss Victory/Lionheart thread is the one I have the most problems with but now I find out I can do all sorts of things with the Power Pool that I honestly didn't realize I could do, that changes things! But still ranks below the other two threads.

I don't really care she is now a heavy hitter. She is, to me, she is Lionheart's sidekick and taking Superhero 101 from him. After all, this is only her second mission EVER! and it could be said it is not even a second mission.

It could easily be said that this is nothing more than a continuation of the first mission. The prison break happened, they went to Ultrahumans satellite, got a shower, some food, a new costume and some Vita pills and then went back down to go after the Prison villains. Isn't this the very same day as the prison break or at most the day after? So it could be said, still her first mission.

She has lost her confidence. Everyone around her died in the prison. One of whom was tortured and gang-raped [inferred or actual, I forget] and she felt some or a lot of that as it was projected into her mind by her dying teammate. She doesn't understand her powers as the experience in the prison changed how her powers are supposed to work. She looks to the senior heroes to help guide her along. She needs this guidance.

She thinks she is basically a Robin who has had maybe a couple of weeks training and is now out fighting crime alongside highly experienced Batman and is overwhelmed - best example I can come up with. She doesn't realize that she is actually more along the lines of being an inexperienced Wonder Woman instead of a Robin.

There is this light novel series called "Suppose a Kid from the Last Dungeon Boonies Moved to a Starter Town", where our hero grows up in the mythical town of Kunlun, where everyone is Superman+ level in power and he is the weakest person in the whole town. And the town in surrounded by high powered monsters and he thinks that they are normal low level monsters. Even the horned rabbit, is tougher than he is, so he can't hunt very well.

It's also an anime as of January this year. Might be on one of your streaming services.

He goes off to become a soldier in a regular town but he has such a massive inferiority complex because of where he grew up, he believes EVERYONE is stronger than he is and that they are all kidding him along when they tell him that he is really more powerful then anyone else that they know, including themselves. Early example of this, he runs from Kunlun across the whole continent to get to the city to try to join the Soldiers Academy and it takes him 5 days to do it. The train, which he doesn't realize, takes over two weeks to cover that distance. However, in Kunlun, even the really old guy with back problems, can do the same trip in 3 hours or less.

This is kind of Miss Victory right now.

And this time travel thing and literary characters being real has me wondering and excited. Is the Golden Age heroes from various comic book publishers around in WW2 in our world? Is there a Captain America? A WW2 Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel who are similar to but different than the modern ones? Is there a Shield? A Blue Beetle? A Sampson and Davey? A Green Lantern? A Black Terror? or will be once we get into 1941 or later? How about Flash Gordon and Emperor Ming and the Planet Mongo? Green Hornet? Tarzan? Sam Spade? Charlie Chan?


Holy Carp! It is quitting time! Going home now!

DavidMcMahon wrote:Let's see...

Powerful... Miss Victory can start a round with 23 Dex, win initiative, use an auto action to activate Mental Blast 23, attack with that as a dice action and use an auto action to flip Dex back to 23/Body to 17. If we are comparing heavy hitters as written in the DC Heroes 2e/3e game I would put money on her being able to beat just about anyone thanks to crit blows and devastating attacks

ooc:  Wait!  I can do that?  I thought I was locked into only one change of the power pool per round?  So I thought if I went with dex 23 I was stuck with Dex 23 for the full round?  I can do all this changing of energy in just one round?  Without having superspeed?

I played her all this time not knowing I could have done this!  Heck, the whole prison thing might have gone down differently because I was keeping her locked to one power set per round as I thought that was all she could do.  SO I might have to rethink her and how to play her because of this.

BTW, what stat am I using to to "hit" with Mental Blast?  Is it Dex or Int or the Power level of the power itself?

As per the power. Just use an auto action to change it when required (and you can use an auto action instead of your move action if you like, in the rules too).

Use the power of Mental Blast (up to 23) to attack and hit. But don't get me started on that! FC3 for an attack power is sooooooooooooo cheap it's crazy. I think the real cost of attack powers should be FC3 for the Acting value (to hit) FC3 for the Effect (damage) and FC1 for the range. As written the game basically has a power of say, Energy Blast 13AP as being ultra accurate at line of sight range up to 8 miles away with no modifier for range We have range modifiers but at some point we'll fire up the Lore Knights Jade Hood/Iron Fist game to try out some tweaks I've been itching to try. In a nutshell every character would have half their Dex to attack with, half to dodge with (with a spare point going to whatever the player decides) and having to buy Acting Values for EVERY power. A power would be listed AV/EV/Range, so for example:

Quantum Kid
Energy Blast 7/11/3

Acting Value (to hit) would be 7, damage (effect value) 11 and range is eighty feet (3APs).

Doing something like this is steering us even further away from the base game though and I know Dave E for one isn't too bothered about mechanics of the game so long as they don't slow play. It's one for a day when I have more time I guess and I'm mindful of not steering us into Champions or Mutants and Masterminds territory.

That way lies madness.

As for the other bits:

David M wrote:It could easily be said that this is nothing more than a continuation of the first mission. The prison break happened, they went to Ultrahumans satellite, got a shower, some food, a new costume and some Vita pills and then went back down to go after the Prison villains. Isn't this the very same day as the prison break or at most the day after? So it could be said, still her first mission.

She has lost her confidence. Everyone around her died in the prison. One of whom was tortured and gang-raped [inferred or actual, I forget] and she felt some or a lot of that as it was projected into her mind by her dying teammate. She doesn't understand her powers as the experience in the prison changed how her powers are supposed to work. She looks to the senior heroes to help guide her along. She needs this guidance.

Eeeek Mind Maiden wasn't raped. We don't do that kind of thing here! She was subjected to a sustained mental attack as they probed her mind for the secrets they thought she held and she 'gave up' with her frail body hopeful in the knowledge that her mind would live on (and it has). I was going to introduce that Mind Maiden had a debilitating disease or something terminal but I'm mindful that the world is grimdark enough and there's only so much misery I want to shovel. Things should get grim for the heroes, so that when they triumph it feels all the more as if they scraped through and came out of the other side having been through the wringer but are better/stronger for it. I've lost track of the number of times Frostbite has taken a battering. For a long long time he was the recipient of the bad dice curse and it took a change of game system (to the DC heroes/Blood of Heroes game) to see things level out. D20s and Dave E seem to not gel too well - honestly I try not to doctor rolls but a lot of the time I just cringed.

David M wrote:And this time travel thing and literary characters being real has me wondering and excited. Is the Golden Age heroes from various comic book publishers around in WW2 in our world? Is there a Captain America? A WW2 Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel who are similar to but different than the modern ones? Is there a Shield? A Blue Beetle? A Sampson and Davey? A Green Lantern? A Black Terror? or will be once we get into 1941 or later? How about Flash Gordon and Emperor Ming and the Planet Mongo? Green Hornet? Tarzan? Sam Spade? Charlie Chan?


Holy Carp! It is quitting time! Going home now!

My plan (without kind of steering the game but certainly leaning towards that direction) was to have Haunt and Steep go forwards to Lore Knights World War II and see if the other two players want to take on one of the Lore Knights or make a WWII based character. Haunt and Steeplejack are quite some margin more powerful than the Lore Knights though so that Difficulty level thing which levels things up should (in my opinion) be used. Also since time hopping I've been happy to include at least the DC Universe and happy to include Marvel too. Those other guys you list might make an appearance too and I hope/intend to have Jade Hood and Iron Fist appear as well. Not sure how that will work (control H+ S and IF/JH or NPC them?) but that's a little way off yet.

Food for thought. Things will improve for Miss Victory, have no doubt about it. She may play second fiddle to Lionheart in this particular battle but he's been around a lot lot longer and he also had to play as Robin to the Vanguards' Dark powered up Supermen at one point. He was literally the minnow in the shark tank...

Steeple_jackuk wrote:

Paul I will answer here regards the things Dave has been saying and what you've been offering by way of a way forward so as not to clog up the other thread.  

First I can't believe you dragged out that pre-DC Heroes Frostbite, wow he looks beefy but what a change.  Just as an aside this is what the original looked like:



As to the current adventure, I am totally fine with it in fact I am loving it as it keeps me coming back even at times I am reading through eyes peeking out from behind my hand over face ( ) it has been a constant challenge and I love that.  I've loved mixing it up with the big dogs.  But Heroes go up and down in power all the time so I am happy going up as well as down.   Personally, the whole Advent thing is fine with me as well, I have no problem with what is going on because at some point I am looking forward to driving them back and seeing Europe come back from the brink.  It's like the situation in Frostbite's thread, I read it this morning and I am like....what!! What am I going to do and that for me is part of the fun.  

So personally I am happy to go forward and see things continue until such a time as they work out.  I am like the guy in a book, and not every episode is equal but I stick it out and in 10+ years of playing have never once regretted going in further.  I don't like giving up on an adventure even if its tough, and Dave I know it is tough believe me I've been here from the beginning.  

So I would prefer to see the current storyline through and see the back story of Advent resolved.  Besides I am having so much fun with Dave Haunt and Steeplejack in the past as well - so I hope we don't get a massive reset as I want to see these disparate threads resolved, personally.  

Sj

I forget what a total mish mash the random Golden Heroes character generation kicks out. In a way it's fun but some players get really screwed over with hapless hopeless misfits. I think Simon (Burley) had planned for players choosing powers originally in that game but Games Workshop might have overruled him.

Advent will be sticking about for a while - they see the long game as the way to go but their time tampering has consequences! No spoilers but there will be big changes coming! The cosmic powers that be will not look too kindly on a conquering Alien power messes with the time stream. No that doesn't mean Doctor Who will turn up (I was never much of a fan!).

well shoot!  I don't need that default stats where I had her 3 physical stats in the mid/high teens with this "anytime she wants to'.  We can just make her default stat Dex 23 and Body of 17 and then move them around once initiative is determined.
Now I am kind of getting hyped about her next fight.  

I have absolutely no problems playing as the sidekick. As a matter of fact, I prefer to do so with her for a bit more -maybe 2-3 more adventures besides this one - before she tries to take the stage as an equal.

Advent will be sticking about for a while - they see the long game as the way to go but their time tampering has consequences! No spoilers but there will be big changes coming! The cosmic powers that be will not look too kindly on a conquering Alien power messes with the time stream. No that doesn't mean Doctor Who will turn up (I was never much of a fan!).


ooc: So we might get the Legion of Superheroes? Kang the Conqueror? Fantastic Four? Rip Hunter, Time Master? Per Degaton? Time Trapper? God? immortus? Dr. Doom? Booster Gold? *Snerk* Dr. Strange? One of a dozen different Flashes? Dr. Manhatten?

DavidMcMahon wrote:Advent will be sticking about for a while - they see the long game as the way to go but their time tampering has consequences! No spoilers but there will be big changes coming! The cosmic powers that be will not look too kindly on a conquering Alien power messes with the time stream. No that doesn't mean Doctor Who will turn up (I was never much of a fan!).


ooc:  So we might get the Legion of Superheroes?  Kang the Conqueror?  Fantastic Four?  Rip Hunter, Time Master?  Per Degaton?  Time Trapper?  God?  immortus?  Dr. Doom?  Booster Gold? *Snerk*  Dr. Strange?  One of a dozen different Flashes?  Dr. Manhatten?  

Oh O bucket list ;-)

Sj

Since I've decided to raise all my characters stats, powers and skill to 8 to make them more versatile instead of more powerful, this is just a note to myself what needs to be done. Already covered the Haunt so, in no particular order as to buying or raising:

Miss Victory -
1. Str, Body, Aura, Spirit to 8
2. Skin Armor, Mind Blank, Systemic Antidote with Old Age Defense, and Mental Blast to 8.
3. Buy regeneration and get it to 8, probably have to get that power outside of the power pill since the pill has the one hour limitation.
4. Buy Mind Shield and get it to 8.
5. Acrobatics, Medicine, Scientist, Vehicles and Accuracy to 8.
6. Buy Languages or Comprehend Languages and get it to 8. Russian is her native language so that is European 3 language group. European 1 includes English. Normally cost 5 HP to learn all languages from her native group and 10 HP for all languages in another non-native language group. So x5 for base cost of 25 and 50 to get both language groups and be able to read, write and speak all the languages in those groups. [75 HP total] And apparently you don't need to buy levels, you get them all for that price. CL would cost 50 HP to buy and would need an 8 in it to usually be able to comprehend all earth languages. +1 FC to read them too. Buying language groups is cheaper. Should do this first since technically she shouldn't be able to speak English right now. GM's hand waving it right now.
7. Buy telescopic Vision - 50 HP FC1 get it to 8
8. maybe other enhanced senses or maybe not.
9. Maybe buy detective and/or thief. Or keep having her rely on teammates with that ability? Good reason for her to keep teaming up with someone if she doesn't have these skills.

Prof. Wynde -
1. Str, Body, Int, Will, Mind to 8
2. Telescopic Vision, Dispersal, Obscure to 8
3. All skills to 8. Yeah! Demolitions under Military Science - really useful in WW2.
4. Buy Expertise or Scholar - antiques
5. Maybe add Premonition to his Occult skill
6. Maybe buy Force Field or Shield
7. Maybe buy Magic Field. #6-7 would help protect others if it is a field.
8. Maybe somewhere way down the line, get weather control
9. Maybe buy systemic Antidote with Old Age defense - mages tend to live a few hundred years, it is said.
10. Sealed Systems? - bring a bubble of air with him wherever he goes?
11. Buy Drain Resistance ... someday
12. Damage Transference - able to do some healing on others.
13. way down the road - Awareness, 'cause top level magic types have this.

Lightning Bullet -
1. All stats to 8
2. Shrinking to 8 - size of mouse. Eventually want to get to 10 to 11.
3. All other powers to 8. Have to keep Flight at least 5 levels higher than Shrinking as Shrinking reduces flight speed by one for each level.
4. All skills to 8.
5. Have to buy Gadgetry
6. Have to get a Lab
7. Have to get richer.

DavidMcMahon wrote:Since I've decided to raise all my characters stats, powers and skill to 8 to make them more versatile instead of more powerful, this is just a note to myself what needs to be done.  Already covered the Haunt so, in no particular order as to buying or raising:

Wow, that is a very comprehensive wish list. I get the gist of it, but my lack of time, unfamiliarity and so on makes my own wish paltry by comparison.

I don't know the relative pros and cons of doing what you're doing versus all the other ways of thinking about raising or leaving certain key areas. It does look as if, from my very layman's understanding, that you are seeking to make your characters more 'all round' than specialised and outstanding in one particular area. I wonder how long it will take to get these wish lists on say Miss V fulfilled.

I think I'd like to get Steeplejack to be good as a detective and I'd love to have some other offensive power than martial arts. We've sort of used Earth as a blasting power but that limits it to earth and my problem is that when I was on the water, I was next to useless.

Sj

[i]I think I'd like to get Steeplejack to be good as a detective and I'd love to have some other offensive power than martial arts. We've sort of used Earth as a blasting power but that limits it to earth and my problem is that when I was on the water, I was next to useless.

Well, Steeplejack has gadgetry, a very expensive ability. You could come up with gas capsules or gas gun - acid, sleep, paralysis, that kind of thing - using that. But very expensive I believe, maybe more so than getting powers that the gadgets mimic. Especially since you need a Lab to make the gadgets. Have to ask Paul about that. He understands that skill better than I do.

Not sure if Steep's powers are all gadget related or he has actual powers and if powers, how he got them.

1. You could try getting Energy Blast using the force shield's energy, saying you developed a way to not just create of shield of force but a way to blast out that energy.
2. You could look at Attraction/Repulsion - not what seems to be a great power at first glance but if you can use it to attract a foe into your force shield, basically a reverse knockback attack, it might actually be a pretty useful power. Also, it could or should be able to be used with your Gliding, you Repulse the ground away from you, getting height so you can glide further.
3. You could look at Bomb, with the extra factor cost of controlling how big an explosion you make.
4. You could have Paul arrange for Steep to find or be given some sort of mystic artifact that gives you a power you want, somewhere in our adventures. I know that there is this guru in the Himalayas giving out magic rings that can do stuff for those with a good and true heart. Pretty sure he or his predecessor is around in the 1890s.
5. You could get Flame Project as a sort of natural expansion/extension of Earth Control. Lava is earth, hot melty earth but earth none the less. being able to blast that out would help in ocean situations.


So there are options for what you can do.

Could also get Dracula to turn you into a vampire and get vampire powers too, I suppose.

Always good to have a wish list

8 is an all round decent figure. In the game as published many characters have scores of mental and mystical stats in the range of 5-10 and only the more exceptional types go beyond that range (Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, all those who make mental or mystical stuff their thing and so on).

Haunt and Steeplejack are increasing at a ferocious rate at the moment. That's because of the +3 Difficulty on everything they do, for Opposing/Resistance value meaning every dice roll you make it's harder to succeed at. I did this because 1) I wanted a mechanic where an ordinary person (Stats 2 across the board) would present a challenge if they were in sufficient numbers and 2) I can stat up reasonably powerful enemies and the difficulty brings them up to, or near, the PCs so they present a challenge instead of steamrollering through them. Finally 3) play by post has a glacial pace compared with face to face. If we were playing face to face for the past 11 years your characters would be far more powerful. Stands to reason really. To compensate the Haunt/Steeplejack Difficulty modifier was a trial and I think it works.

For anyone reading this unaware of what it is, for every +1 OV/RV (that's a bad thing, an increase in difficulty) the player characters accept for EVERY dice roll they attempt in the adevnture, I add 10HP to the standard Hero Point award at the end of each adventure.

A standard hero point award is made up of the following:

Level of Opposition 0-40HP
Are the bad guys weaker, about the same or stronger than the characters? Are they overwhelming (kobyashi maru scenario - no win) like in the Prison? When they are like that I would expect experienced role players to find another way other than going toe to toe. Sometimes no matter how hard you try, the other guy is tougher.

Critical Points 1-20HP + 1-5 for miscellaneous
At some point in the adventure there may be some test, some 'make or break' discovery that cracks the case or convinces the bad guy to give in or defuses the bomb or whatever. It's not something I apply very often because I don't want success or failure to ride on one dice roll, or even a dice roll at all in most cases.

Area of Consequence 0-50HP
Who is going to be affected if the players fail? Is it personal so only they will feel the cost of failure? If so the award is zero. Is it Citywide (3), Nationwide (5), Worldwide (15), Galactic (25) or Universal (50) like when Thanos snaps his fingers?

Severity 0-15HP
Does it matter? Will the thingy be rebuilt or replaced, or the loss of the wotsaname be forgotten about over time? Or is it something etched into the mind, clouds everything the character does going forward and ultimately affects their ability to do their job (if they even carry on at all)?

Onto that I apply the +1 to +5 difficulty modifier* that applies to Opposing and Resistance values of every task the character attempts (rolls dice for). Sometimes the mechanics mean that the enemy opposing the character instead gets a boost by that much, but it works out the same - the characters life is harder. This should not be underestimated. I have seen on numerous occasions where Haunt and Steeplejack would have succeeded if not for this. When I roll the dice and resolve the mechanics for their actions I can see exactly where the +3 they have applied in this area affects what they do and for this there is a bonus to the standard award of 10HP per +1 difficulty so Steep/Haunt get an extra 30HP on the standard award for every time they stumble through an issue as they thwart the machinations of Advent. This is a lot, and can even double the number of HP earned but make no mistake. The characters would succeed far more often if this wasn't around.

*Currently only Haunt and Steeplejack use this.

Once I tot up the Hero Points for each of those categories we have the total standard award. This is then handed out for:

Participation - if you stay the course from start to finish without any major absences you get this paid out, so everyone gets this 99.9999% of the time. We've had players who show up every other month and other players who show up, argue like crazy, rule lawyer and so on. I feel the need to reach for a cold wet flannel for my head when I think back to those days.

Role-Playing - So far everyone has had this. I'm more of a fan of explaining how the character feels and acts rather than the equivalent of a grunted "I attack" with a half line of text. I do understand that play by post takes time and to do it well you need the space and means to post without feeling rushed and that can't happen all the time.

Saving the lives of innocent bystanders - this is a game about good guys bashing bad guys, saving people and the day. If you save someone (anyone) or even talk the bad guy out of destroying themselves you get this award.

Thwarting the plot of the opposition - The prison scenario was a no win in this area. There was a narrow chance to delay them so that the Ultrahumans could show up in force but for the most part the PCs were up against people who massively outrank them in terms of power. Damage limitation was the best they could hope for. Most of the time the awards have handed this out. Very rare that anyone has failed to 'win' in this game.

Role Playing Subplots - this is something we maybe need to look at doing more of. A brief interlude, meeting up with a date or helping a friend out or something that is pure roleplaying, no dice, can get this awarded.

Miscellaneous - this gets doled out when I feel the pllayers have gone above and beyond. Great posts, fun roleplaying and for a job well done that makes my job as GM easier gets this. I hand this out as often as I do for Participation. It's easy being a GM for you guys because you make it easy

So let's say the standard award is 45HP, you get it for Participation, Role Playing, Saving Bystanders and Thwarting the bad guy. That's 45HP x 4=180HP for the adventure.

Finally (because I have to go out) this is a game about superheroes, and a four colour one at that. We have had wartime scenarios and the rules change for that but generally, superheroes don't kill. It's a thing.

If you enter killing combat to kill the target (whether you succeed or not) you get NO Hero Points awarded for the adventure.

In wartime scenarios this rule does not apply but for roleplaying bonuses the player should suffer some internal wrangling and self doubt over whether there is some other way etc.

Phew!

That's where we are with Hero Points and how they are awarded (which are then spent in game or to boost stats!)

Updates later on (starting with Ruby City) but looking to do a 'clean sweep' of updates tonight.

Cheers, Paul.

Updates this evening. Rough week. Clobbered by the covid jab, GF's dad had a fall and is in hospital with a broken hip (he's 90, I have a nasty feeling he won't come out of hospital...) then had my son dropped on me (never a chore but when you are feeling rough it's not an enjoyable experience). Anyway, after the sweats, headaches, feeling hung over, random nose bleed and fighting off a bout of what felt like flu I feel... ok now.

Catching up, I have some house move stuff (paperwork) to sort out as well but keep an eye out for the updates chaps. Cheers, Paul

Admin wrote:Updates this evening. Rough week. Clobbered by the covid jab, GF's dad had a fall and is in hospital with a broken hip (he's 90, I have a nasty feeling he won't come out of hospital...) then had my son dropped on me (never a chore but when you are feeling rough it's not an enjoyable experience). Anyway, after the sweats, headaches, feeling hung over, random nose bleed and fighting off a bout of what felt like flu I feel... ok now.

Catching up, I have some house move stuff (paperwork) to sort out as well but keep an eye out for the updates chaps. Cheers, Paul

Thanks for the explanation Paul, but you know we never mind a delay. Glad you are feeling so much better, a tough week, hope it's a better weekend/week ahead.

Happy Easter ;-)

Sj

Out of all the people I know who have had the vaccine, yours are the worse symptoms. Take care and really do ask your doctor if you should take the second dose as I hear that is the one with the worse symptoms. First dose barely affected anyone I know other then the usual soreness or a bit under the weather reaction folks get from flu shots.

Take care.

Well, another 'week that was' Updates today and hopefully this week without much in the way of interruptions, but my *new* house move is under way so that may present some obstacles. All being well much smoother than last time...

Admin wrote:Well, another 'week that was' Updates today and hopefully this week without much in the way of interruptions, but my *new* house move is under way so that may present some obstacles. All being well much smoother than last time...

As and when Paul as and when. Grateful if the pace slows sometimes because life always seems willing to pick up the slack. New house, wow that was fast after things upended with the last one. Glad you've found something so quickly.

Sj

For the same price as well Dave. Unfortunately things have slowed down somewhat when I discovered the conveyancy emails had been vanishing into the spam folder in my inbox. Sat there for a week or two before I caught it on a cleaning up session. Hopefully things will move this week with searches and legal stuff (finally) being arranged. Timeline is about a week since the last one fell through found this place. Since then there's been nothing really that took my fancy so I'm glad/happy/lucky to have found this place. Nothing fancy, three bed semi in a quiet ish cul de sac which will do.

Unfortunately 215k doesn't buy you a seven bed mansion set in 300 acres of ancient woodland these days

Admin wrote:For the same price as well Dave. Unfortunately things have slowed down somewhat when I discovered the conveyancy emails had been vanishing into the spam folder in my inbox.  Sat there for a week or two before I caught it on a cleaning up session. Hopefully things will move this week with searches and legal stuff (finally) being arranged. Timeline is about a week since the last one fell through found this place. Since then there's been nothing really that took my fancy so I'm glad/happy/lucky to have found this place. Nothing fancy, three bed semi in a quiet ish cul de sac which will do.

Unfortunately 215k doesn't buy you a seven bed mansion set in 300 acres of ancient woodland these days

You are not kidding, down here in Devon, everyone and his buddy want's to move in and get away from London etc. So people are buying having seen on a website and just paying up. When I first came down 16 odd years ago, there was a massive difference in what London money could buy you down here, now not so much. Of course a massive population boom only exports the problem!

Glad you've found a place to put your feet up mate. Trust all goes well, appreciate the updates but knowing what is happening if things slow down we'll at least know you're snowed under not gone under

Sj