Chat About the Games Part Two

Modern technology lol!

Woke up (after a healthy 3 hours sleep) about 40 mins ago to ...



So I took a lateral flow test (cheap n cheerful yes or no thing that I had spare from work training a month ago)



So I tested my oxygen levels ... 99% (normal) and temperature... 36.4 degrees (normal)

This Covid app cost the UK people Billions and people having to self isolate costs billions more in lost productivity (for me it's cancelled trains but as it happens I'd have been off four days anyway and they can cover the fifth day so no problem). It's like a false alarm app basically, crying wolf, since I've had 2 jabs anyway but the law is the law so I have to stay at home... *sigh*

You sure that's not a home pregnancy test that they just re-labeled?

Admin wrote:Modern technology lol!

Woke up (after a healthy 3 hours sleep) about 40 mins ago to ...



So I took a lateral flow test (cheap n cheerful yes or no thing that I had spare from work training a month ago)



So I tested my oxygen levels ... 99% (normal) and temperature... 36.4 degrees (normal)

This Covid app cost the UK people Billions and people having to self isolate costs billions more in lost productivity (for me it's cancelled trains but as it happens I'd have been off four days anyway and they can cover the fifth day so no problem). It's like a false alarm app basically, crying wolf, since I've had 2 jabs anyway but the law is the law so I have to stay at home... *sigh*

I work in a hospital and have attended to people dying from Covid, but still haven't managed to catch Covid. Not that I am ungrateful. Nonetheless, you do normal and get it, hmmm. Anyway, glad things are sorted. That is why I've been quiet all day, Friday is Hospital day and I am out without an opportunity to respond till now. I know how difficult the whole house thing can be. Glad that it seems to be sorted, and the way forward is clearing for you mate. Love to have you post but equally won't sweat it if things go south as they have a want to do sometimes.

Sj

Got a friend from work who is a bit interested in what we do here. I've sent him the link. Whether he wants to play or just look us over is still up in the air.

He can introduce himself if he signs up.

David M

Nick is a bit interested and he is going to look us over.  I suggested he register anyway and showed him which forum to asks his questions.  He doesn't know the system at all and is more of a 1990s+ person as to what happened in comics and more of a Marvel than DC fan.

We were shooting ideas and just before leaving work I suggested him have a character called "The All-Seeing Eye".  Based off of a Centaur Publishing character.



He could have the split ID power, normal guy and The All-Seeing Eye!  He would have telepathy since he has no mouth to talk with in hero form.  Horrifying appearance.  Intangibility and Invisibility.  Then vision powers:  Telescopic, Microscopic, Ultra, Infra-red, Laser Vision, Force Beam.  And Flight.  Maybe possibly force field.            

Earlier, we were talking plant powers - Plant Growth, Plant Control, teleportation along soil, like the new Lore Knight NPC character.  

He has lots of questions like where he would come in.  How turns are done.  How many points to make a character.  Etc.

I told him he would probably have to join an adventure already in progress since our GM is a bit whelmed at the moment.  Hmmm ...  maybe become another college buddy in the 1950s adventure?  

If he doesn't take the idea of The All-Seeing Eye, maybe I will ten or so years down the road when I retire one of my other characters.      

I did get a message from someone but can't reply to them as not registered. It did leave their email address though so I'll send a quick message.

For anyone who doesn't know, I picked up keys to me new house yesterday and it's all hands to the pumps (decorating, sorting bits out). I'll be juggling house stuff with work but will make (heck, I'm gonna NEED) time for running the games to preserve my sanity. All work and no play makes Paul a very sad boy. Going to be a busy month. I'll be here, but kind of flitting in and out when possible. Should calm down a lot after then and in August I have 3 weeks off.

Cheers, Paul

Have fun with the new home.

Will update later on. Am on call with work but hoping they don't ring and chancing my luck with a trip to the new place and get some painting done. Turns out they had two dogs and two cats. Finding all sorts of dirty surprises in the place but the structure is pretty sound. Other than a broken floorboard to replace and cosmetic stuff, nothing disastrous. So far.

Good luck with the new place. have fun decorating it in the style you want.

Just a quick update (have to hit sack for a 5am start). Almost managed to finish decorating before I had to move stuff out of the old place and put it in the new. By the end of the week the move will be complete (I'm juggling it with work practically every day). Watch out for updates and thanks for your patience!

Cheers, Paul

Right then, time to kick things off again. Hope you've enjoyed the rest! I'm still up to my eyeballs with house stuff (torrential rain yesterday revealed a few problems...) but I have a few hours to post/catch up...

Good to see your move hasn't worn you totally out.

Admin wrote:Right then, time to kick things off again. Hope you've enjoyed the rest! I'm still up to my eyeballs with house stuff (torrential rain yesterday revealed a few problems...) but I have a few hours to post/catch up...

And hereeeee we go ;-)

Sj

Admin wrote:OOC Should be more up to speed this week. Had a month off work to get stuff done and whilst I'm not totally there I'm much further on than I thought I'd be so the jobs that are left (reorganise the garage to get stuff in) and new garage door (the existing one has had it) aren't insurmountable. These things are sent to test us etc. Even work (back this week, won't be with a smile on my face for the first day!) looks easy on paper. Thanks for your patience guys.

No worries mate, been a mite busy myself, will reply tonight, still trying to catch up now.

Sj

updates today. Almost forgot my anniversary (eek!) with the other half yesterday so I had to dash about gathering the appropriate offerings (flowers, chocolates, card etc) and take her out for a meal. When I turned up with all the stuff she said "i thought we weren't getting each other anything? I didn't get you anything." So I'd forgotten that part too. Doh.

I haven't forgotten Lionheart and Miss Victory but to post their updates I'll need to post pictures up and I'm on the wrong laptop (and at work) so it may have to wait till I get home. Will see what I can sort.

Did you fallback on one of the two oldies:

1. I only agreed to that so I could actually surprise you!
or
2. Being a guy, I figured this would increase my chances of having some fun with you later tonight!

Admin wrote:updates today. Almost forgot my anniversary (eek!) with the other half yesterday so I had to dash about gathering the appropriate offerings (flowers, chocolates, card etc) and take her out for a meal. When I turned up with all the stuff she said "i thought we weren't getting each other anything? I didn't get you anything." So I'd forgotten that part too. Doh.

I haven't forgotten Lionheart and Miss Victory but to post their updates I'll need to post pictures up and I'm on the wrong laptop (and at work) so it may have to wait till I get home. Will see what I can sort.

Admin wrote:updates today. Almost forgot my anniversary (eek!) with the other half yesterday so I had to dash about gathering the appropriate offerings (flowers, chocolates, card etc) and take her out for a meal. When I turned up with all the stuff she said "i thought we weren't getting each other anything? I didn't get you anything." So I'd forgotten that part too. Doh.

I haven't forgotten Lionheart and Miss Victory but to post their updates I'll need to post pictures up and I'm on the wrong laptop (and at work) so it may have to wait till I get home. Will see what I can sort.

Well in my view giving her something though you'd agreed not to is better than not giving her something because you forgot. So it must be all good.

Sj

As regards to using Hero System gadget rules instead of BOH gadget nightmares, the way I see it is take take type of focus and use it to determine the FC of a power to build the gadget. Don't use any activation rolls to see if you build it correctly or to use it[unless you want to take that as an additional disad], just build it as you would regular powers. You can add in other disads to lower the cost more but that's just adding more disads not inherent to the original cost of building a gadget. A fairly simplistic way to do things and won't take hours of end to work out.

So IIF [Inobvious Inaccessible Focus] would have a FC of -1. OIF [Obvious Inaccessible Focus] and IAF [Inobovious Accessible Focus] would both have a FC of -2 and OAF [Obvious Accessible Focus] would have a FC of -3.

IIF would be something like Wonderman's magic ring, it's not obvious his powers come from the ring nor is it possible to take it off him in a fight, ignoring the bloody idea of ripping his hand off since this is a superhero game.

OIF would be Green Lantern's ring. It's obvious where his power comes from but again, unless you rip his hand off, you can't take it off him in a fight. Or Iron Man's armor, that would be OIF. You have to get him out of it before you can take it.

IAF would be something like Sargon the Sorcerer's magic gem in his turban. His magic comes from the Gem of Life on his turban but it doesn't glow or in anyway show itself to be the source of his magic powers but it is accessible in the fact that all a person has to do is make a grab roll to steal the gem from his turban.

An OAF would be something that is hand-held such as Starman's Gravity Rod, very obvious where his powers come from and a grab roll and it is yours.

Captain America's shield would be either an OIF or an OAF depending on whether you view making a simple grab to pull it off his arm or he can't lose it while conscious, like you can't remove Green Lantern's ring while he is conscious either. Throwing it to do damage would actually be some kind of energy blast since it comes back to him automatically [through hours of practice of learning how to make it bounce back to him].

If we went with using Miss Victory's Vita Pills or Hourman's energy pills as gadgets instead of clunky ways of limiting how long their power would last, those would be considered IIF gadgets since it isn't obvious that their powers come from pill and they would have to be searched after they were helpless or unconscious in order to find more of them on their person.

Vehicles could be built the same way. The Batmobile of the 1950s would be an OIF, you have to break into it or have to carry it away, to get access to it. It would have Running, Jumping [has a rocket assist in the back to jump over washed-out bridges and such], paper crime files [giving a small increase to using Detective skill], armor and a few other bits added in.

We could try it as an experiment when time permits to see it is too unbalanced for the game or not. Everyone makes a character using a gadget and also makes the same character but it is powers instead of gadgets and see how it balances out.

Spider-Man's webshooters would be either IIF or OIF, depending on if it is believed that his webs are natural or it is believed that they are gadgets that you can't normally access until he is unconscious or immobile and then you can take them off him be simply removing his gloves and pulling them off, which you can't do in a fight.

"Accessibility" means how accessible it is to a foe during a fight.

Ibis the Invincible's Ibisstick is an obvious accessible focus, make a grab roll in a fight and it is yours.

I'm somewhat reluctant to mish mash two games together. That way lies madness! Probably best way to go about building new gadgets is list the abilities required, the reliability number (checked when first auto power used and applicable every dice power use) and stick it in the Gadget Builder program:



pro:

It works (that's how I churn out characters so easy/fast)
It is (was) free from (wayback machine) HERE

con:

It runs in windows xp. You can get round this by running the XP mode of Windows 7 but Windows 10/11 are somewhat trickier to get running reliably. I kept my Windows 7 laptop running on 7 (which I'm typing from now) purely because of the ability to run this program. Heck, it's held together with sticky tape, bit of glue, the power socket wobbles and it keeps my legs VERY warm as I type, but it does a job. Over the years it's had a faster processor, more memory, faster/bigger hard drives and a new keyboard. Possibly a screen as well. Bit of a frankenstein.

I have the files for the various rule sets including Blood of Heroes so if you are brave enough to try and get that program running in Windows 10/11 I can email them to you. One rule set was brilliant - it had descriptions of powers/skills etc in it but the owners of Blood of Heroes requested that be taken down so it was. I didn't get that rule set Edit: turns out it corrupted but was a really useful file.

With regards the Hero system I found the game fine to run, the rules for character creation and the derived stats/abbreviations made my eyes glaze over. 3e is about the limit of my patience with that game. 5e I played for a while but never felt an inclination to run. 6e is two books and each as big as 5e so screams 'no!' to me. My life is too busy to devote the time to read that!

However I am always open to new stuff so might (I'm juggling naff shifts this week but have some time) drag the Champions game off the shelf for another look. No promises, but if it makes all our lives collectively easier I'm interested!

Hero System is all about min/maxing and heavy number crunching but their disads can be easy to modify for our game.  It's "min/maxing but they all do the same thing/damage" burned me out on the system long ago but it has good ideas.

Let me give an example of merging it into our game.  

Sgt Icer has two guns, one with Ice Control and another with Ice Production.  Ice Control costs BC 5, FC8.  Ice Production costs BC 20 and FC 10.  If the guns are OAF - Obvious Accessible Foci, then that is -3 FC.  So the powers would have a FC of 5 and a FC of 7 respectively.  A successful grab roll would be needed to snatch them out of his hands.

If instead he had two blasters built into his gauntlets for those powers then it would be an OIF - Obvious Inaccessible Foci, which would be a -2 for both, so FC of 6 and 8.  He would have to be defeated to remove the gauntlets, which is why they are inaccessible.  

Or he could build circuitry into the suit so that it looks like he is actually generating the powers himself and not the suit, that would be an IIF - Inobvious Inaccessible Foci, that would be a -1 FC to each power.  So unless they stripped him out of his costume, they wouldn't know that his powers weren't natural.

There is no activation roll, no burn out roll, no destruction of gadget roll, no "x" number of times used and then it turns off roll, no destruction of the gadget until it is repaired at a special place roll - unless you want to take any of those as extra disads to make the FC cheaper.

Then you have the multi-power gadget.  I would have to look that up but I think it basically gives you another -1 or -2 FC for all your powers to be grouped together.  You would also use a power pool/reserve to run all those powers.  So our Sgt Icer would have his two Ice powers and his power reserve in one OAF gadget. Instead of -3 FC, it would be either -4 or -5 FC for all three powers. Really cheap but you take that obvious powergun away from him, he's pretty much out of the fight unless he has something else he can use.

So Iron Man, having armor, flight, energy blasts, life support and whatever else all in one gadget.  And it would be an OIF - Obvious Inaccessible Foci, beat him up and knock him unconscious and you can get him out of the suit.

Or Starman's Gravity Rod which controls gravity [ allowing him flight], heat and light powers.  It's an OAF - Obvious Accessible Foci.  Make a successful grab roll and it's yours.

I think this is a much simpler way to do gadgets, less of a headache and makes them a bit more attractive to players and villains alike.

So like Prof. Wynde's now gone and destroyed mystical medallion, it's Body/Armor absorbs damage first and whatever gets through that, his normal defenses then apply, if there are any but the medallion doesn't break and it's Body/Armor doesn't decline so he can use it every round.  UNLESS - it was given an extra disad that had it become extra weaker after every hit or was destroyed and had to be rebuilt at a mystic lab or whatever extra disad was given to it.

As I said, it looks way less number crunching and a bit quicker in making heroes and villains.

In terms of speed I just cooked this up in less than half a minute (most of that time whilst the XP emulator loads to be honest, this isn't the fastest laptop out there!):



Looks like my 'a' key is going iffy too

That has a reliability number of zero (the best). It doesn't burn out, there are no rolls to make. It is removable in combat (with a grab) and is hardened. It you want to break it you need to destroy the whole thing before it stops working.

An upgraded version (took longer thanks to writing the waffle but otherwise I just twiddle the numbers and print it off).



if we bought that in the way you suggest the cost would be:

Body Fc6 - 3 for OAF (can't apply the FC reduction to stats but for this purpose we will) 10APs 48HP
Skin Armour FC5 BC50 10APs (linked) 66HP

Total cost 114HP. No rolls needed, not hardened (target the Body, do 1 or more damage to disable it. If you want hardened add 32HP for total cost of 146HP).

The gadget rules aren't perfect in DC Heroes but there are enough incentives to use them. A gadget costs 1/2 and reduces to 1/4 if it can be taken in combat, purely because it's a thing that can and will break and no one would go for it unless there was some cost break or advantage. Hardened makes live easier and so does Reliability 0 (zero). Doesn't matter what you roll, there's no burnout. I get what you say about making things easier with simply buying a power and -2 or -3 FC for being OIF/OAF/WTF (  ) but what happens if it's dropped? Gets targeted? Run over by a tank? Needs a body score. Does it have a brain? Needs stats like Int/Wis/Mind if its a computer with AI or Infl/Aura/Spirit if something like Elrics' Stormbringer that compels him to chop people up.

Giant picture /\ apology.

Anyway, I don't want to get too bogged down with rules. We kind of went through that a few years ago with a member who was very very clued up on the rules as written but it gave me a headache to chew through her posts because I'm a 'we'll go with what works' rather than 'no deviation!'.

In terms of gadgetry with our house rules it's actually much easier to succeed now.

1) You get extra dice to roll on your attempt from Gadgetry skill
2) if those aren't enough you can buy more, but it's not cheap!
3) You can break into/borrow/rent a lab to make the stuff
4) I can cook up a gadget in the gadget builder (which is a godsend!) in moments
5) It hasn't come up very often anyway. When you start out with gadgets no rolls are made. You just pay the cost. As seen with the Amulet in the last post if you don't want to roll for reliability you don't have to. It just costs more. Thor doesn't roll for his hammer but I'd argue Spider-Man does for his web shooters and Iron Man might have a very low R# on his suit (especially in the clunky early days but that was more a plot thing where he'd run out of juice and cook in the iron prison around his body).
6) Even with the clunky gadget rules you are better off (cost) using them!

Admin wrote:Giant picture /\ apology.

Anyway, I don't want to get too bogged down with rules. We kind of went through that a few years ago with a member who was very very clued up on the rules as written but it gave me a headache to chew through her posts because I'm a 'we'll go with what works' rather than 'no deviation!'.

In terms of gadgetry with our house rules it's actually much easier to succeed now.

1) You get extra dice to roll on your attempt from Gadgetry skill
2) if those aren't enough you can buy more, but it's not cheap!
3) You can break into/borrow/rent a lab to make the stuff
4) I can cook up a gadget in the gadget builder (which is a godsend!) in moments
5) It hasn't come up very often anyway. When you start out with gadgets no rolls are made. You just pay the cost. As seen with the Amulet in the last post if you don't want to roll for reliability you don't have to. It just costs more. Thor doesn't roll for his hammer but I'd argue Spider-Man does for his web shooters and Iron Man might have a very low R# on his suit (especially in the clunky early days but that was more a plot thing where he'd run out of juice and cook in the iron prison around his body).
6) Even with the clunky gadget rules you are better off (cost) using them!

I've not followed this too closely, but being far more pragmatic, as long as the rules are fair to all involved I think they work as-is for us. In a real-life face 2 face game maybe it might need more. Sometimes I get frustrated with my own lack of knowledge on the rules front. As in, am I missing something here! But most of the time, I'm happy with what we do because for me the emphasis is on enjoying the story, not rules-lawyering every advantage I can muster to 'game' the system.

Not that I object to what you are suggesting Dave, but if it ain't broke (at least for us) then why fix it...

On another note, legacy programmes and how to keep something defunct and dead going, when new iterations and changes make that so difficult. How we keep data intact and usable going forward into the future and not obsolete, so that say unlike a piece of paper or photo, a word doc or exe file can still be accessed is something that you kind of hope will get easier not harder in the future.

Sj