Chat about the game...

Oh yeah, Issue #3 is up too

Well with weather control, you have someone in Stormwarden who has every base covered in that area, completely (and should Kendal develop it further I would suggest doing something with energy points much as what this Field Manipulation suggestion is pointing to, save that as a Grade 4 power it would be, well, for want of another word, Mighty!)

However, rather than being useless, you could emulate the power and effects of Arctic weather with your weather control to the detriment (dropping) of other effects. So, no tornadoes or rain, but snow, freezing temperatures over a wide area (and frost/ice depending on the ambient temperature before you mess with it) and freezing winds. Don't underestimate a wind chill factor! (As a motor biker I know about this - 3 degrees c is about -18 at 70mph according to some. All I can say is, it's very very cold!). That would fit in more with your powers and because you would be refining one aspect (cold weather) to drop all the others (wind, rain, cloud movement etc) it's something you could do for free in my book, and elevate a power that I don't recall you using save in your first adventure to one that might see more use. Against superhumans its not the flashiest or most powerful, admittedly, but against normal goons it can be devastating. History tells us that when Germany tried to conquer Russia in the depths of winter.

Right now, I think Vigour, for the reasons you state, is your best bet. Either that, or if you're willing to carry on 'as is' and hope to get through to the end of this issue, essentially you'll get two upgrades to existing powers. Your choice

Field Manipulation might be expanded so that it has separate energy points that you spend on various effects to bring it more up to (but not exceeding) Energy attack in usefulness. So 4 Field Manip Energy points per d6 of htc or htk? (Bear in mind this hits automatically so would cost more than PSI attacks or Energy attacks, but would open up to 3, 4, 5d6 of automatic damage against a foe) Creating an ice elemental that obeys your commands? See the Magic rules for details and do some tweaking. Ice constructs? 1m cubed per energy point. Want to make it thicker/tougher? A boost in htk for your construct (e.g. ice wall) per Energy point spent.

I've been reading an rereading this and I love the versatility that you are giving this, kind of like more like energy attack but with a different set of outcomes and gimmicks but at a higher cost to keep it in line with energy attacks. I think that it needs, it as there is currently no way to boast it in the way you can with energy attacks or in the way energy attacks get gimmicks.

I think that if there was a way to improve field manipulation so that either I could use a pool of points that I can use to perform a gimmick, such as quick attack, or icing up a door, or some sort of area attack etc. Then along with this I'd let go the idea of strength and go with the idea of improved vigour. Vigour fits better as I must have something incredible with my biology that I can survive cold and the computer implant. And field Manipulation improvements works well with my persona of being a living jack frost, elemental power and what so. Hitherto the only power I have pretty much seldom used is my weather control, its largely useless, as slowing people seldom becomes useful in a team situation where the wind power threatens foe and friend alike. But that aside, I'd be interested to see what you think Paul.

Sj

Admin wrote:You make good points-

As do you Paul and I'd not even thought of some of these things. I'm so tempted to barter how I can improve field manip along the lines mentioned. But will make some tactical decisions, I'll look into the whole construct/force wall thing. As well as consider you counter proposal re vigour.

I realised that when I rolled Frostbite up, he was by nature of the dice an oddity, one we had to improve. I've enjoyed playing him, but had I chosen the powers (as I know I've said before) I would have gone for a mixture of offence and defence, as with Lionheart or Steeplejack. But in taking him as is, I've got a lot out of playing him tactically - more than I'd have expected to do. But in truth I quickly run out of options in combat, fly, flee, blast, field manip and a quick quip has been standard fair and I'm keen to mix it up a bit. Your suggests really open these possibilities up.

Just out of interest you talked in terms of field manipulation being made more powerful at the expense of htc/htk...fair point, but if we go down that route I think I would want that vigour boast to accompany it. Otherwise I'd become even more vulnerable when attacked. The other way around this would be to make field manip a side effect of my energy attack, increase that a grade so I could use the same pool of limited points for both. Field manp is very tight, very specific, energy attack is a blast area effect thing - hence roll to hit, two frames etc. Anyway some good thoughts.

Anyhow, sack time for me too. Was about to start the intro for issue #3 but I wouldn't be able to finish it tonight anyway before my eyeballs fell from their sockets...

Wow cleaning them is such a pain, I hope you get all the fluff off, otherwise you'll spend the day forever complaining that you've got something in your eye ;-)

Sj

You make good points- Intangibility is good in theory at Grade 2, but you're never going to get bad guys out of the fight too fast by doing that and open up your team mates to attacks because bad guys will soon get fed up at swinging through thin air. Strength is one option, especially if high enough to boost dividers, which is useful. Bear in mind most enemies you've faced have had at least one blaster in the group and that -3DD is a killer. Good job you guys have it too then

Another point to consider is that some of you guys have taken a serious beating, so vigour might be of some use to soak up some of the pain. I'm also open to suggestions and an official 'this is how we do it in this game from now on' write up of additional power grades for powers that only have one grade, or ones you have the maximum grade of (so for you Dave, Field Manipulation, for Kendal, Weather Control). Field Manipulation might be expanded so that it has separate energy points that you spend on various effects to bring it more up to (but not exceeding) Energy attack in usefulness. So 4 Field Manip Energy points per d6 of htc or htk? (Bear in mind this hits automatically so would cost more than PSI attacks or Energy attacks, but would open up to 3, 4, 5d6 of automatic damage against a foe) Creating an ice elemental that obeys your commands? See the Magic rules for details and do some tweaking. Ice constructs? 1m cubed per energy point. Want to make it thicker/tougher? A boost in htk for your construct (e.g. ice wall) per Energy point spent. I'd like to get us all involved in approving/suggesting refinements and upgrades to powers so no one feels overshadowed or that anyone is favoured more than another.

Anyhow, sack time for me too. Was about to start the intro for issue #3 but I wouldn't be able to finish it tonight anyway before my eyeballs fell from their sockets...

Admin wrote:These are the DUP allocations you made from, oooh, way back when in the old thread. Posts are dated 8th and 9th of February, and you've done absolutely loads since then without further reward, so I'm going to make things simple.

Improve one of your existing powers by 1 grade, or 2 of your powers to just short of 1 grade increase (so they will automatically go up at the end of the next adventure) OR add one brand new power roll (which rules out things like Magic, PSI etc but would be great for Stormwarden, for example, if he wanted tough skin or energy blast as both fit nicely with the character.), again, needs to fit in with the character as much as possible and subject to approval blah blah, but after nigh on 9 months of solid, every day play I figure its time you guys got just rewards, so I don't think it's too much.

Ok so when i wrote up my power allocations, I was of course thinking in terms of what had gone before. Now I am thinking that intangibility isn't nearly as helpful say as gaining the vigour or field manipulation bonuses.

Or the other thing I am thinking is increasing in strength (so I can go toe to toe in combat rather than just range, I have no effective melee powers whatsoever, this has largely limited my combat effectiveness and boy don't I know it) or increase a level in energy attack?

Hmm I'll have to think about this, I think I will want to upgrade two powers to make my combat effectiveness greater. Field Manipulation has been invaluable and getting that down to a 1 frame attack makes it a better compliment to the energy attack. Increasing my strength by whatever grade 1 strength would make me 20 strength at a minimum which would mean +5 to attack.

Hmm - what do you think Paul, I appreciate you're impartial, but if there is a element of tactical choice here and a choice which I get stuck with I want to make a good choice, so suggestions would be appreciated. I'll sleep on it in the meantime.

Sj

These are the DUP allocations you made from, oooh, way back when in the old thread. Posts are dated 8th and 9th of February, and you've done absolutely loads since then without further reward, so I'm going to make things simple.

Stormwarden

Somewhat tricky here. I would want him to learn how to duplicate the emp effect that we went for in 'the lions den', together with developing the lightning 'globe' that he used on the demons. I see the two as linked - one a very broad use, the other a tighter application of the same ability, however I imagine that either I devote the dups equally to both or learn the one first (the emp power) and then refine it further to get the globe.

Given that he is freelance and still has projects going on, Guy will also need to spend some free time to finish these off.

Finally, an issue of uniform. If we are operating as an official style of team, Guy would like to be able to get hold of a 'uniform' that provides an extra DC and hopefully expands with him. Thats on his wish list!

DUP allocation:
Social Free time - 3 dups

Power Refinement - 15 dups

==========

Frostbite DUP allocation
28 DUPs

I'll spend 10 DUP's on increasing the speed of my field manipulation
I'll spend 10 on increaing the effectiveness of my intangibility
and I'll spend the other 4 on building up my vigour, training, going back to the gym etc. How does that take care of things so far?

Sj

Improve one of your existing powers by 1 grade, or 2 of your powers to just short of 1 grade increase (so they will automatically go up at the end of the next adventure) OR add one brand new power roll (which rules out things like Magic, PSI etc but would be great for Stormwarden, for example, if he wanted tough skin or energy blast as both fit nicely with the character.), again, needs to fit in with the character as much as possible and subject to approval blah blah, but after nigh on 9 months of solid, every day play I figure its time you guys got just rewards, so I don't think it's too much.

Sorry about the delay. Got caught out having to make an unexpected trip this weekend. And got back yesterday aft to find 3 tons of assorted stone in my garden to sort out (including some types I didn't ask for). I think I'll be sorting that lot out for a while (they also broke my wheelbarrow so its a hand job to move it all). RL definately took a front seat! Aching everywhere. I'll post and then go back to RL. <sigh>

Will update later today - expect everyone is slow/tied up over the bank holiday weekend so will take the appropriate actions for the character (in this case Stormwarden) and resolve the combat - we're very near the end of this issue, so only a page to go or so of posts then into the start of the next. I also intend to dole out DUPs but might skip that and go straight to 'assign an upgrade' for Frostbite and Stormwarden as I've been slack on the character advancement front after near 8 months of solid play.

The best bet is probably to supplement it using the Cortex system. Thats a fast paced game that allows disadvantages and was developed to keep some of the flow from films etc (it started off as the Serenity RPG, then the Battlestar Galactica RPG and now has a common set of rules). Its usually a very quick way to make and play a character but we'd have to see how to treat super powers.

Agree with both comments about the rules - for me, Golden Heroes has a distinct 'low to mid power level' feel that Marvel was pretty good at, but my favourite supers game (Dc Heroes, sacrilege!) wasn't very good at. Most low level characters in that game were virtually identical with regards stats, which is why they had to give batman ridiculous (lift 1500lbs, really?) strength levels to differentiate him.

On the more powers front, I think a look at each power and adding ranks and options would open up the rules some. Taking a look at other games, they usually have a powers list two to three times that available in GH which shows up the age of a game not really changed in 20 odd years. I dare say there isn't enough money in it for Simon to devote his time to turn out a Squadron UK revised edition, or new game using the basic mechanics and expanded in every way, especially since there are now loads of supers games all clamouring for peoples money (like Truth and Justice, the upcoming Icons, Mutants and Masterminds, Hero system, Supers!, BASH!, heck, Gurps Supers. SuperBabes. Heroes Unlimited. Villains & Vigilantes. Mutants & Masterminds. Silver Age Sentinels. Marvel SAGA. DC Universe. Champions... the list goes on...)

Another thing is that whilst I love the art in Squadron UK, the layout is kinda dated. A look at the production values used in modern games shows up SQUKs origins in the 80s, and with PDFs being a cheap publishing medium I think things like logo headings, better spread out fonts and a spruce up would definitely make it more attractive to potential buyers. Take a look at Mutants & Masterminds, heck, even as far back as DC Heroes 2nd edition, great game presentation, to my mind.

So for me, more powers, weakness, a reward for using weaknesses in play, a revamp with the layout and expanding the current powers/options in the game would help, but as we all know the game certainly works 'as is'. I can't imagine too many players taking up the game against more modern flashier games (with a central mechanic instead of GHs old school style 1D20 for this, 2d6 for that, 1D10 for this etc) though, mores the pity. Points based systems seem to be the best current player of making the character exactly to your requirements, though I'll concede they aren't prefect. Takes me hours to make an M&M character, and don't even get me started on Hero 5th edition (though the book would be handy in a bank siege for stopping bullets)

Well I certainly can't disagree about the sheer 'lack' of powers maybe. But frankly I've played MSH and find that GH is so exceptionally more FUN to play - because of the generic nature of most of the 'big' powers. You don't get the same level of proscriptions on them - and yes, this means its up to a GM to make sure that they don't get out of hand. But the variety that also gives is far closer to the 'comic reality' than the MSH or some other games get.

Its why I've always come back to GH.

The worst aspect, in many ways, is magic and psionics. In both of those cases, the powers do come across as very limited for the items listed under each category. But then that character could have 'regular' powers ascribed to psi or magic that make up for that.

Which brings back the other point about GH that I like. Its not often that you can godmod (is that the right term?) a character. You can bring this about but the character will normally always have more than one weakness. A physically enhanced character is susceptible to magic/enegy/psi - the m/e/p character is normally susceptible to physical damage. And all of them are very susceptible to the fact that the GM does have the ability to vary what a power can actually do. Its a blooming good system and the only reason some people don't like it is that they have to actually role play instead of roll play.

Sorry - rant there.

Goiing back on topic, I also seem to remember a couple of nice WD additions. One was a list of powers by 'type' of rationalisation, and included better skills or background categories, and the other was an adaption of the lists to include religion. You didn't have to use it but for any character using magic or with that kind of background it was funny - in a 'oh my god!' kind of way.

Both of those were only adaptions of the basic powers list - but seemed to work very well when we used them.

Now disadvantages. Yes - you have a point that we don't normally use them in GH/SQ. I feel part of that is down to the lack of variety and the fact that some of the disadvantages that you get in the other games are covered in the background checks. (I can't give you the ins and outs of it all as I've buried all my rules amongst a four foot pile of various papers to bind or rebind). Suffice to say is that how your role-play during a game - and play your character, is supposed to be rewarded by the change in your hero status. But then I know so many GM's who ignore that aspect. So the disadvantages are there - but rarely used to their full.

But I've seen those ignored so many times in so many other games of many types as well. Half (or is that 90%) the GM tends to forget about them as well (with the wonderfull exception of cortex where you should actually get rewarded for staying in character and playing your disadvantages to the hilt).

So this is chat about the game well I'll add a few thoughts in here.

I've always wondered if GH/SQUK is missing something in the powers stakes. You see Champions, M&M etc, have hundreds if not more powers. A lot of fantasy games have as many feats, powers and spells. And I've always had a suspicion (but never confirmed it, simple because I've never sat down to work it out) that because of the generic ways powers are handled (rather elegantly in most cases) the game lacks a bit of punch or variety.

So Absorbing man's powers for instance, Spidey's webs (although Simon did cover this in a old WD issue) I always wondered what powers were missing and how you might incorporate them in such a way as to not break the old system whilst giving GM's great room to work within the system more creatively.

Another aspect of this is that there is no formal rules for disadvantages being accrued to gain benefits apart from flavour. There is no crunch value to say having a weakness to light - Paul has handled that well, but should the game at least explore that and or introduce some minor advantages or refinements?

OK there is two questions to get going. I have to say on a personal note that now my D&D PBEM has finished I am so pleased to be in any game at all. No one in North Devon seems to be into RPG as all the clubs are in the south, so being able to play this way at all is so good. Which is another comment on gaming and probably best left for another thread.

Sj

Running behind/late today - full updates tomorrow and over the weekend - sorry chaps Need sleep after a week of nights and my head is full of sludge (unless that's normal of course )

Paul

Limerickcot wrote:Ha. Its times like this that I'm glad I'm typing not talking....He wasn't sure he could get the fourth tiny twisty root all the way out - have to wait and see.

At least I'm a little more clear headed today despite that though. Now if I can just get that sleeping tablet to work...

Oh man teeth, the worst pain, so irritating. Sounds like you had a bad abscess, I hate those had a fair few in my time as well, I hope it settles and you feel better.

Sj

Ha. Its times like this that I'm glad I'm typing not talking. I was having a hell of a job sleeping due to an intermittent tooth ache. You know - the type that means you can't actually tell which tooth is the problem and then it swells up the side of your face, into your eyesocket and you're feeling like you just want to claw it out. Rang the dentist 14.03, they said they had an appointment at 14:25 or wait til friday. Jumped a taxi, half hour later he's pulling (or trying to anyway) my tooth out. Now I have a dull ache but its triggering an nasal 'irrititation'. Feels like I'm going to sneeze any second. He wasn't sure he could get the fourth tiny twisty root all the way out - have to wait and see.

At least I'm a little more clear headed today despite that though. Now if I can just get that sleeping tablet to work...

run out of time today - back to bed then up at 1.40 for work - will try to update then. Had unexpected visitors then my 6 year old commandeered the computer. Nnngh. These things sent to try etc.

Hi guys. I did post - yesterday morning - but it seems to have gone the way of the dodo for some reason. I'll try and repeat it as best as possible. Sorry for the hold up.

I've backed up the old threads, might do a backup of the backup now. I'd quite forgotten about the sheer number of different characters and names I've been dropping since the game started in October 09, so will be sifting through and updating the who's who in time. Meanwhile see the Character Sheets section for details on other characters.

Yay! Copied one thread over! The downside is that a few of the image links have expired but I guess that's no biggie, the text is what's important for past reference. I intend to sift through the old threads and note anyone of importance down - I already have a list of people/places/names on my computer but really need to update the Who's Who. It's been left untouched for months and we've done loads since then, so I'll stick it on the list o things to do. The growing list. Endless, even

Will continue to copy threads over, and hopefully get issue 2 up to speed and start reposting tonight. Still heard nothing from Harry will try to contact him again, and in meantime write up a 'for new players' thread so they don't look at the place, see all that's gone on and go running, scared they'll be plunged into something they don't have a clue about Also, it's just about time you guys got some more DUPs, so at the end of this issue (2) expect an update on that front. Loads to do, work is a bit of a pain this week but will try my best to get things up n running properly again Keep the faith

Oh, and someone else post something - it's starting to look like this forum has 1 poster. 1 sad, lonely, poster

Started to copy over the archive posts. Our former host, in swapping to the new forum seems to have killed a lot of the picture links I put in old posts, unless they die after a set period of time. That said, I'd like the old posts copying over to have a record that players can look back on and so on. With that in mind I will start to copy over the posts and label them 'archive'. It's going to take a while, but I'll do it bit by bit...

Useful (or otherwise) files and links...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zfwjrqrywdj/Darkening Shadows campaign Background .pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/vmy0t0o5qmz/Darkening Shadows What Happened next.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/dwdwkh3nw1j/House Rules updated.pdf

http://www.mediafire.com/file/omn1ju1wtn1/Who's who.pdf
(This is due a major update, so I'll et you know when I've done that)

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