Welcome, new players and old!

Hopefully we'll have a couple of new players in here to introduce themselves, and some old timers who'll pop in to chat

By way of introduction, I'm Paul, live in England, drive trains for a living at horrible times in the morning, and usually have one or two kids climbing over me or wanting to play plants vs zombies (or whatever its called). Been GMing/Occasionally playing RPGs since I was 10 or so,and started with Moldvay Basic D&D before moving onto just about every game available in the 1980s. Did other things in the 90s, and came back in the late 90s to RPGs via play by post on dial up modem

With regards the DC heroes RPG, I've run and played every version, and own everything ever published (modules, sourcebooks, rules, everything) but won't claim to have read it all!

That said, I am rusty with the game having not played it regularly since the early 90s so am starting to get back up to speed. Feel free to shout HEY! if you want something explaining or think I'm doing something wrong - I don't bite!

Cheers, Paul

Nice new design Paul.

For the new folks, I'm David. I live in Raleigh, North Carolina, USA. Turned 53 a few months back. Still single so if you know an available gal in my area ....

Started gaming when D&D was originally released in a box and Elf and Dwarf were considered character classes with just fighters, rogues, clerics and mages. No other classes at that time. Played the first version of DC Heroes but not the later versions. I've played all genres but not all systems. Been involved in PBEM games for the last 15 years or so.

I'm a COMS, certified Orientation and Mobility Specialist - basically, I teach blind folks how to get around using their long white canes.

Ditto on the layout, really reminds of me of silver age Marvel sort of logo. I really like the clean simple style.

Ok so onto introductions I am Sj (or Dave) also, been playing RPG's since the mid 80's, I am a Baptist Minister, in the UK, an photographer and an artist, a father, runner, and enthusiastic PBEM'er. I've been part of this game and several games like it for years, and our shared history goes back a little way. But what is great about this new chapter is since we're all coming to it new, a lot of what has happened isn't as relevant to the present so you're not tied down with continuity.

Ok looking forward to finishing off Lionheart's story and getting down to what comes next.

Sj

Running slightly behind (about to go to work, had kids all weekend, impossible to get anything done etc) but no surprise there. I wanted to put to you a change in game style that system change brings.

Basically, we're upping the average scale of things. What I mean is that Golden Heroes was 'street' level and the game is about to become 'average' level for Superheroes. Think Avengers, Mid Tier characters in the Justice League, tossing tanks instead of dustbin lids, flying across continents in seconds instead of catching a taxi to the crime scene, reading minds miles away instead of having to be stood next to someone. The DC Heroes system does that 'heroic-godlike' tier extremely well, but at the lower end of the scale things look a bit samey. The characters won't be the most powerful around - think of power levels as five tiers, the Vanguard will be tier 3, Lionheart as tier 4, the 'gods' of the super hero community will be five, but are few and far between (one in the UK, two maybe three across Europe, half a dozen in the US, an unknown number in Russia and China, and maybe the odd one elsewhere).

Street crime will still be in the remit, but rather than purse snatchings and muggings it'll be Bank Robberies and hostage situations, and for situations against normal (unpowered) criminals it won't be if you take them down, but how. For instance Anyman (or rather 'The Haunt') will be bulletproof. That's fine for him, but what about the hostages? Minimizing collateral damage will be as important as rearranging a criminals teeth, in other words, as will investigation of the crime scene, dealing with the Press and Authorities, and trying not to run foul of the various other super groups (which will be inevitable I expect). Super Villains? Well they'll range from 4 color spill the beans before you escape and punch me in the gut to proper nut jobs who don't deserve to be left breathing air, thus providing you with a moral challenge.

Take a Joker type. Mass murderer, incurable. Keeps escaping. What would you do?

Keep an eye out (bookmark this thread) in the next day or so and you'll see the outlines of characters posted up. What I need from you guys is to take a look at the DC Heroes rules book and the power section in particular, and decide if you want new powers, different ones, and what level they will be at. The MAX I'm looking for is 12-15APs for Acting/Opposing/Effect/Resistance (bearing in mind Spiderman might be a 13-15 Opposing value, Batman is 9 Acting value, someone like the Thing would be 15-18 Acting value and so on). So you're not going to be taken down by a thug with a gun (unless you want your character to be vulnerable to knives and bullets of course) but you are medium sized fish in a very large pond so to speak.

Scale wise its nothing like the Golden Heroes game. Light Speed is 28APs. Speed of Sound is 10APs or thereabouts. Every AP doubles in value over the previous one, so 6APs strength can lift 1.5 tons, 7APs strength lifts 3 tons and so on. You could directly convert your characters from the Golden Heroes ones but they'd end up very low powered, (which they shouldn't be for the game I have planned.)

Even if you are seemingly underpowered against a foe, spending hero points and getting decent rolls helps.

More later.

Oh, and for the new players, I've asked they come up with 1000hp characters. Existing players get 1250 points, Lionheart gets 1500. Might not mean a lot but the starting street level character in this game gets 450 points, so you are knocking on for 2-3 times more powerful.

OK, where did the link for the download of the DC Hero rules go? Thought I had it here at home but I don't. Downloaded it at work only and can't spend too much time on it there. Can you post it again, Paul?
Thanks

You have PM

Thanks.
Haven't sat down to figure out costs but here is a first rundown of what he might be like.

Looking over the character creation process, here's my take on some of the stuff the Haunt would possibly have:
Strength - 10-13
Body 9-12
Intelligence 6-8
Mind 8-10
Influence 5-6
Wealth 6-8
Aura 5-6
Spirit 4-8
Motivation: Seeking Justice

Advantages:
Gadget - not sure the cost but stuff built into his costume to help him appear supernatural - smoke billowing out, costume can glow wierdly, parts can turn black so at night he looks like he might be headless or bodiless

cont the Haunt
Advantage: Omni-connection [possible]; Buddy - Dr. Praetorious[?] also made his costume and gadgets
Drawback: Secret ID; traumatic flashbacks [acid torture flashback - occur when he knows there is acid about or when he sees an autopsy table like the one he was strapped to]

Powers: Omni-Arm; Self-Manipulation: Stretching; Chameleon: Aura of Fear [built into the costume, some sort of sub-sonic wave that gives you the heeby-jebbies]

Skills - just listing the broad catagories: Acrobatics [no more than 6 if that]; Artist; Charisma, Detective, Thief

How did you read the rules so quick, i hate reading rules I find them really tedious. So anyway, are we using DC 3rd edition rules. If we are I've taken a look but was disappointed by the selection of powers as they didn't seem very many at all.

Anyway stats and stuff not bothered about really, so not sure about costs or how much budget or anything.

Nor even sure what to add up here (is it base cost of the FC cost - whatever that is!)

Frostbite Power selection

Cold Immunity base cost 5, factor cost 4
Energy blast BC 15: FC:3
Flight BC 10 FC 3
Ice Production BC 20 FC 10
Skin Armour BC 50 FC 5

Questions:

Did I miss strength - or do you buy that with stats?

Not sure if I missed it but is Ice Control the same as energy manipulation? And did wonder if it was worth taking energy absorbtion, until I found out not only will it be limited in use (ice or cold) but it just reduced damage I can't recycle the energy into a meaningful benefit.

So don't think I will take that.

Ice Control BC 5 FC 8

Also I don't know what stats I should be adding up - I assume its base cost. But what I don't understand is what levels or grades they are. They don't give a specific idea of output. So do I need energy blast twice to get the equivalent or what?

Finally two other things - couldn't find intangibility and I think you said the gadget control computer brain thing came from Blood of the Heroes, so they aren't factored into this either.

Since I don't know how the rules work, not sure what more I can take or if I've already overspent.

As regards to skills - oh boy even more limited, so I went for the following:

Skills
Military Science BC 10 FC 8
Vehicles BC 5 FC 5
Weaponry BC 5 FC 6

Because both my alter egos have a military background. But only one has a science background. Anyhow I thought these skills seem woefully limited and again I wasn't sure how much of everything I could take and what was left out of the overall budget of 1500. So if someone can give me the Cliff notes I can tote the up and hand them on.

Just to say I have no idea if this leaves me woefully underpowered or just very focused or totally over my buy budget. Whatever the cost I hope I can replicate what I've got.

Sorry been so busy, had a chance to pick powers late last night, but not had a chance to do much more and won't have any real free time until Thursday now.

Thanks for any pointers (now beginning to regret not asking Paul just to convert his character over and have done with it .

Sj

Have been *stretched* myself (currently sat on a train in Redcar, my friend on another train has derailed (2nd of our trains derailed today!), my train is running hours late and it looks like another 14 hour stretch) but managed to start having a look through the books. Yeah, we're using DC Heroes (a copy of which you have) AND Blood of Heroes (available on Amazon if you fancy it, but no need as I have it) which lists a number of tweaked rules and extra powers. The two are completely compatible so you're at no disadvantage if you have only the one book.



This is the first *tentative* draft for Frostbite. That Ice Production power costs a fortune! Anyway, Dave (E) character creation looks crunchy but is reasonably easy. Page 30 of the DC heroes book lists the AP (Attribute points, the numbers on the character sheet) costs. Frostbite, Silver Sentinel and Haunt start with 1250 points. To buy a power/skill pay the base cost (BC) of the power or skill and find the factor cost along the top. Then decide how many APs you want.

Example:

Ice Production is BC20, FC10. That means pay 20 of your 1250 points for the Base Cost, and decide how many APs you want to find out how much the power costs to buy.

I chose 13APs for Frostbite - it's his main power, used to attack, create ice constructs and immobilise foes. Take a look at the chart:



Ice Production therefore costs 300 points for Frostbite. 20 for the base cost, 280 (!) for 13APs. To put 13APs into context, that Ice Blast would hit with the impact of an air to air missile as fired from a jet. It could easily be used to take out a small army of Thugs with one blast, but stopping street crime is just a tiny part of what Frostbite can do. With 13APs ice production he can create a construct of up to 8000 cubic feet instantly. Need an 'instant' headquarters? *pop* Might be a bit cold, mind... I don't know how big 8000cu ft is in real world terms, but it kinda sounds warehouse sized or bigger.

Another power I was hoping to get for him was Frostbite (apt given the character name) - allows the character to become painfully cold to touch, and to reduce the temperature around him up to quite a distance. That will need some points juggling and possibly some weaknesses/drawbacks to afford unless we drop some of his other costs. Ice Production down to 9, say, Energy Blast at 13 would free up some costs. Anyway, will do my best to get a Draft sheet up for everyone, and ALL PLAYERS BEAR IN MIND:

There's no exact way to convert characters from one system to another I find, so I am more than happy to tweak and/or change ANY of the characters attributes, powers, skills etc in the first couple of adventures. After that, hopefully we'll get the character you feel you're after and they'll be cast in stone

Ok Paul

thanks for helping us out there, if that is all of Frostbites points used up that is fine. But just to say that the intangibility isn't included in that. Not sure what disadvantages he should take other than Frostbite in the new world was considered a public enemy due to the unsanctioned nature of his work. Also the Ice Production - could be lower, it sounds like a massive power as compared to what he was, so if need be we could drop that back an ap or 2, but I will defer to you on that.

Otherwise he looks fine, and if its a matter of tweaking as we go then that is fine. I guess as long as I can do what I previously could do under GH, as a base level then that is fine. Anything extra is a bonus.

Thanks mate, hope you're train got moving ok.

Sj

Ah, but I *have* included intangibility - it's called Dispersal

The problem is to make it fit I needed to make it tiring to use. That means if he uses it at full power it will cost him points of Body (zero Body=unconscious). That breaks the rule about the 15 max, but to use it at full power is a disadvantage, so I'm ok with that

I actually posted my take on Davids Haunt character earlier but my internet threw a fit and lost the lot - got kids climbing all over me at mo so it will be in an hour or so

Admin wrote:Ah, but I *have* included intangibility - it's called Dispersal

The problem is to make it fit I needed to make it tiring to use. That means if he uses it at full power it will cost him points of Body (zero Body=unconscious). That breaks the rule about the 15 max, but to use it at full power is a disadvantage, so I'm ok with that

I actually posted my take on Davids Haunt character earlier but my internet threw a fit and lost the lot - got kids climbing all over me at mo so it will be in an hour or so

Sorry didn't realise what that was when I read it, should have read it more carefully. I hate getting used to new terms, Dispersal sounds rubbish compared to intangibility. Ice Production sounds like some kind of ice cream factory, rather than Field Manipulation. Oh know...listen to me I sound like a grumpy old man!

Right I'll take a closer look when time permits. Thanks as ever Paul.

Sj

No worries mate - all you have to do is state actions and spend hero points when required. Only prob is there are so many options and all the different powers and skills take some getting used to... DC Heroes really is the best supers mid level upwards game I ever GM'd though, and it's worth sticking with in my humble opinion

That said... Golden Heroes still has that combat/frames/rounds thing which is really, really tough to beat. One day I'll revisit it, for sure.

Right, David M, before I was *rudely* (kids) interrupted:



1st draft of the Haunt. I wrote a full page (not kidding) of notes for this and lost the lot earlier. Could have kicked myself. in a nutshell:

You listed no Dex so I assumed Batman level, nigh on superhuman.
Strength is awesome, 200 ton press.
Bullets are no problem, bursting shells slow him down but won't fully stop him.
I added Regeneration so you heal every 2 mins (something along the lines of your fluid plastic body) but you can drop that if you want.
Most powers and skills are linked to reduce costs, but that makes advancement slower later. It's a trade off, but we run games long term as you know so not a massive problem. Your call. I can unlink them and they will be lower, but you can increase each individually.
For stats I started at the bottom of the range you list, then worked up when points were available. If you want me to bump some up (influence is perhaps too low for him) will have to pinch some from elsewhere (or see below)
The costume caused some head scratching. Easy to make a gadget that does the job, but I tried a different approach. A costume can be damaged or taken away. This approach is different - the costume unlocks a part of haunts mind that activates Fog and Aura of Fear. When out of costume, the powers are gone. When in costume, he *becomes* a new person - the Haunt and gets those powers. The costume itself is a visual trigger, has 'insta change' (like a ring and collapsible costume, Flash style) and Strange Appearance - helps when scaring the beejezuss outta someone. Maybe he needs higher Influence and Charisma to complement that.

Anyway, that's first draft. Next up, Silver Sentinel. Our two new players are well versed (maybe more than I am, even) with the DC Heroes game so need no help with characters.

Frostbite, Haunt and Silver Sentinel are all well known to me - I know their background, description and what they look like, so there is a 50HP bonus for each character. You can save the points for gameplay or spend them on more stats/powers/skills etc (recommended)

Aloha! My name is Ryan, though I go by dunecat online these days. I live in Canada and spend my time as a student currently.

Now that the Introductions are out of the way, I'd hardly say I'm better versed in the game then you are Paul. I just like crunching through character creation rules, I mostly enjoy it. It's been good looking over the characters you've worked up in here, gives me a better sense of the AP range your looking for! I was trying to push everything to being up over 10 at least, which is probably a little nutty. Also, thanks for getting me those gadget/artifact rules over on the MU forum. I appreciate it!

How did you read the rules so quick, i hate reading rules I find them really tedious. So anyway, are we using DC 3rd edition rules. If we are I've taken a look but was disappointed by the selection of powers as they didn't seem very many at all.

Actually, I didn't read the rules. I just skimmed pages, looking at the AP character for each stat, until I got to the powers section and then just read the power's that seemed to fit Putty/Haunt. If it said that Plastic Man or Elongated Man had that power, I took it since that is what Putty basically is a super strong version of those characters.

Now to go read the write up on Haunt that Paul posted.

Most powers and skills are linked to reduce costs, but that makes advancement slower later. It's a trade off, but we run games long term as you know so not a massive problem. Your call. I can unlink them and they will be lower, but you can increase each individually.
For stats I started at the bottom of the range you list, then worked up when points were available. If you want me to bump some up (influence is perhaps too low for him) will have to pinch some from elsewhere (or see below)

Can we add extra point or two of Influence and Charisma into the costume, linking it to the costume I mean. So he has his normal actor's charisma in secret ID and great charisma and influence in hero ID? Never thought about Fog. Cool power now that I look at it. How about we lower it a point or two to raise those stats a couple of points? The rest looks good.

Or should we give him that Alter Ego drawback with the InstaChange advantage so that he would have his costume when he became the Haunt?
Captain Marvel has to say a magic word to change
Johnny Quick had to recite a scientific formula to get his superspeed powers but had to change into his costume.
Captain Triumph had to rub the T-shaped birthmark on his left wrist to have his ghost brother inhabit him and give him his powers and change into costume.

I'm not sure which is cheaper to give us a few more points.

Aloha! My name is Ryan, though I go by dunecat online these days. I live in Canada and spend my time as a student currently.

Now that the Introductions are out of the way, I'd hardly say I'm better versed in the game then you are Paul. I just like crunching through character creation rules, I mostly enjoy it. It's been good looking over the characters you've worked up in here, gives me a better sense of the AP range your looking for! I was trying to push everything to being up over 10 at least, which is probably a little nutty. Also, thanks for getting me those gadget/artifact rules over on the MU forum. I appreciate it!.

Nice to meet you Ryan and glad you are onboard. Hope it is a long journey with us.

DavidMcMahon wrote:

Most powers and skills are linked to reduce costs, but that makes advancement slower later. It's a trade off, but we run games long term as you know so not a massive problem. Your call. I can unlink them and they will be lower, but you can increase each individually.
For stats I started at the bottom of the range you list, then worked up when points were available. If you want me to bump some up (influence is perhaps too low for him) will have to pinch some from elsewhere (or see below)

Can we add extra point or two of Influence and Charisma into the costume, linking it to the costume I mean. So he has his normal actor's charisma in secret ID and great charisma and influence in hero ID? Never thought about Fog. Cool power now that I look at it. How about we lower it a point or two to raise those stats a couple of points? The rest looks good.

Or should we give him that Alter Ego drawback with the InstaChange advantage so that he would have his costume when he became the Haunt?
Captain Marvel has to say a magic word to change
Johnny Quick had to recite a scientific formula to get his superspeed powers but had to change into his costume.
Captain Triumph had to rub the T-shaped birthmark on his left wrist to have his ghost brother inhabit him and give him his powers and change into costume.

I'm not sure which is cheaper to give us a few more points.

Will have a good look at it, but you have 50 points to spend from background, description and Personality/Picture which might just do the job.

Draft for Silver Sentinel (anyone seen Ross, by the way?)

The Fabricate power is the thing to note here. I think it fits perfectly into the character concept as he could turn metal into objects, specifically his suit. It works by assigning abilities to the suit, then making a roll to determine how long the construction lasts. Artifacts created are temporary and have a reliability number of 12-RAPs so chances are it will conk out if you go for something too ambitious or get a rubbish roll.

Typical values:
Body 7
Skin Armour 5
Energy Blast 11
Flight 10
Sealed Systems 10 (or Strength)

That would need a roll of 11 or more and last for 30 seconds before the suit dissolved back into metal. Making it weaker or with less abilities means it lasts longer. For instance a suit with Flight 10, Body 9 and Strength 9 would need a roll of 9 or more and last for 2 minutes. There is a reliability score for the gadget though and low rolls will burn out the ability, so roll high! And add hero points! A great roll might mean the thing lasts for hours, or days even. When it dissolves it can be cooked up again, and anything the player can imagine (well, up to Factor cost 7 and Base cost 50) can be incorporated into the suit, which has hardened defences as standard and can swap for any attribute.

Not just limited to suits either.

Airplane?
Flight 11
Body 10
Strength 10
Projectile Weapons 11
Sonar 10

Needs a roll of 11 or more, lasts for 30 seconds. Remember to use Hero Points for stuff that needs to last more than seconds or needs to be reliable!

If that doesn't suit, I'll cook up a more conventional character (flight, energy blast etc) which does the same thing but without the sheer variety (and massive cost) of fabrication.

Will have a good look at it, but you have 50 points to spend from background, description and Personality/Picture which might just do the job..

With Fog, I see it more as affecting normals and low level crooks. Mid-High level crooks wouldn't be as scared of him ... at least as he starts out. So with the bonus 50 points and shave a point or two off Fog, should be able to raise Charisma and Influence one or two points each.

Since Silver Sentinel gets the genius advantage, shouldn't his intellect be in the 7-12 range?

7-8: The· person's intellectual capacity rivals
a,.professional who is one of ten authorities in a
field of study or a born genius.
Aquaman, Nlghtwing, Scarecrow

9-10: The Intellect equals a professional who
is one of three world authorities on a subject.
Swamp Thing, Hawkman, Grodd, Wonder Woman, Joker

11-12:. The person is a genius or has intellect
on par witt, an individual who is the best
authority In the world on a subject.
Batman, Supetm'an; john Constantine

Didn't know John Constantine was considered that smart. Then again, I didn't read his book much.

Admin wrote:Draft for Silver Sentinel (anyone seen Ross, by the way?)

I just emailed him. Unfortunately since we can no longer meet at his place, our D&D group is on a hiatus, so I don't see Ross as I used to. But I buzzed him an email, and sent the post as a link so he could get to look at it.

Paul Have I missed something, but the last we read of Lionheart he was on his way to Stonehendge, and then nothing...don't we have that to still finish, or have I missed something here?

Sj

I thought I wrapped Lionheart up - he flew the plane (without wings) through the 'gate' at Stonehenge and vanished with the rest of you. Of course, magic being what it is, everyone scattered to the four winds in the 'new' Earth (which is now your home) so everyone starts on single issues until the inevitable team up.

David M - Genius doesn't necessarily mean smart and able to figure stuff out, more that the level of technology the character is capable of understanding, using, and in some cases fixing or making (like Silver Sentinel with his power) is far beyond the level of the timeline you're in. I thought it would be a nice flip/change given that Sentinel should be backwards (given he's from the 1940s) instead of forwards in his knowledge. He picked that up (somehow) from his adventures in space and melding with all those spaceships...

An example: You or I transported to medieval times, or further back even, would be considered a magician or genius simple because we could design simple tools or even construct things we consider everyday items. Even going back to the 40s with a mobile phone would make it seem like you were from outer space That's Genius (as I see it). High Intelligence is something else - Leonardo Da Vinci had high intelligence, but it was for his time - all his constructs were of wood and natural materials. You could go back in time and draw him a picture of a plane or glider, and he'd be astounded. Doesn't make you smarter, just that you are used to a level of technology he can't even dream of.

Admin wrote:I thought I wrapped Lionheart up - he flew the plane (without wings) through the 'gate' at Stonehenge and vanished with the rest of you.

Typical never got notified of the post, so didn't even look there. Been wondering why that was so quiet. Didn't like to say anything because I know you've been busy. My bad. Right reading now...

Ok wow I feel so out of the loop, simply because I started seeing the new thread, before I realised you'd finished Lionheart in the old combined thread. Ok caught up now, sorry that was why I didn't respond. If you see a strange unaccounted for absence, 9 times out of 10 its because I've not realised something has been updated.

Thanks Paul

Sj