Optional rules discussion

DavidMcMahon wrote:Going to take me awhile to get to this. Going to be fairly busy until after Monday. Wish I had my scanner, I could then scan some of the stuff from Superbabes because I think some of it might work for a PBEm game.

Open to any/all suggestions. Ultimately I want to cook up a document with more powers, standard mechanics for everything we do in the game and a combat system that is so slick you could call it the Fonz... Obviously it won't be for publication, just for use of players on here, but I'm open to all ideas and systems if it runs better in Play by post.

Hi Paul

yes I find that doing one thing can ignite ideas in another, just make sure you write it down afterwards ;-).

Anyway healing isn't probably an issue in the way it would be with say D&D, but I just wanted to know if it was going to change, it needn't as its never been an issue before.

Hero points sounds fine, I guess like everything else we'll tweak as we go.

And parrying etc, you make a good point. I guess as long as we know stats we can work it out, or at least offer up the roll and let you add whatever to it. I'd roll dice to, but it would have to be a trust thing, so rolling via Invisible Castle at least means I'm being transparent.

I don't know what Ross and Dave think, but I'm good with things as they stand so far. I guess my comments and or request for changes might come later on when we see how things pan out in the game.

Laters

Sj

Most of the time when parrying you will be at an advantage, because most of the foes you have faced (aside from the most powerful) have been WC1, making it slightly easier for you to parry. WC2 is the same as you, so in effect normal heroes vs villains have no adjustment at all, and you can more or less ignore the math in normal supers fight with the WC bit. Not much I can do about your lousy dice rolls - I use a D20 which was legendary in its time for rolling high, and especially 20s. I use it equally for heroes and villains.

Hero points I was thinking 15 apiece for the longer serving Vanguardians, 10 for the newcomers (though Ross/Smaug/Silver Sentinel is coming into the 'been here for a while' part, so I figured 12). Finish an issue where you are regarded to have 'won' I reckon you can get as many as 5 hero points, plus a few bonus points should you do something really heroic (and remind me about it - some of our issues are really long, though I don't mind doling them out on the spot. So you'd use a hero point, get it back a few posts later and get a bonus point for saving someones life/great roleplaying/important event etc).

Was also considering healing today (whilst riding the motorbike, banked over, winding the power on and thinking 'hmm maybe healing should give a boost once per hour to the characters where they get their second wind'. Weird what you think about when doing something else instinctual...). I was thinking once per game hour the characters can give a boost to their HTC AT ANY TIME THEY CHOOSE by adding their vigour in points to their HTC. Like a second wind. Not a D&D style healing surge or whatever, just what you might see in the comics where the hero took a battering and is somehow able to continue. What do you/everyone think? I realise we are drifting further away from the SQUK rules but nothing will be implemented unless a) it works b) people understand how it works and c) it's better than the existing rule, and by better, I mean faster, more balanced, easy to work out. The first couple of times you do it might have you referring to the rules, but after that we should zip along nicely. I hope...

All looks fine from me mate, had a quick read through and it seems to make sense, I've had Frostbite parry at the old method I can go back and edit the post if you want me to?

Second the only thing you haven't explained is how often we get hero points? Is their a limit, do they get 'held' if not used or wasted if not used in a certain time. Is their a maximum or minimum amount one can have/starts with etc. Does it cost any extra to use an action point -like a frame or something. Can you use action points to give you more frames in a round than you might otherwise normally have?

Hey Paul just a another thought, I realised if I wanted to go back and edit Frostbites Parry's I had to go back up the post to find the WC of villains as well as the type of attack. Just a thought that this seems a added complication although I can see why you'd do this to make WC mean something. But it also seems to make parrying more difficult I say this because FB is so bad at it, when someone lands a punch I can imagine myself burning through Hero points to counter this. Now I might just be being reactionary. But my rolling hasn't always been fantastic, so it could be painful at times. But I'm willing to give it a try and find out what is what. I think that in order to do this though, it might need to be more meta gamy as we need more stats and facts up front in order for us to roll? Unless we do the rolls and then let you work out the number crunching behind the scenes?

Ok I might have a few more questions but that will do for now.

Sj

Going to take me awhile to get to this. Going to be fairly busy until after Monday. Wish I had my scanner, I could then scan some of the stuff from Superbabes because I think some of it might work for a PBEm game.

Some bedtime reading for anyone who's interested. This is a 'first draft' and the rules might change after we field trial them and find them to be utter rubbish.

House rules updated

Comments, questions, utterances of "WTF?" etc, in here if you will

Apologies for the delay in opening the file - free file hosting isn't free any more, and you might want to turn your speakers down before you click! Annoying... grrr. If you prefer I can email the file (assuming I have your email address)

Do you know I realised something from this example I hadn't been getting up till now.

The way I read it I thought that accuracy=damage, but in fact its accuracy + equivalent = damage. With equivalent being determined by the maximum value you can roll on that weapons damage.

So I was thinking, as I read this through, what's the point of getting three 20's (unlikely I know) if it meant nothing if the damage was only the equivalent! So I had understood you to mean that if I rolled 20+17+3+5= 45-17= 28 accuracy and hit with a fist, I'd still do just 12HTC+ Str bonus - the damage limited by the maximum for a fist in this case! So no real return of my high dice.

But now I've re-read this example below I can see it would be 12 + 28 + Str Bonus so accuracy plays a huge part in determining how much damage you do, from a lucky strike.

The whole notion of hero points sounds good, Golden Heroes was always very good at making death difficult, which for a game that is meant to be fun, this needs to be.

Anyway thanks for persisting with this Paul, the more I read of it the more I understand a like it. It does make combat more swingy and it will be interesting to see how quickly we get to recover. Don't want a 10 minute work day.

Sj

On my 'to do' list:

Hero Points
Parrying
Power stunts
Maybe some kind of experience system for upgrading powers (though I prefer doling them out when we've done an adventure or two)

To clear up combat:





Here's a combat example.

Anyman (WC2 Strength Bonus +15 punching so max 12htc from punch) attacks a foe (DC6). He has 1 frame, so tries his best to wallop the guy. Roll of 18 to hit (after umpteen missing rolls...) means add WC (2) + Defence Class (6) for a total of 26. You need to exceed 17 for the attack to hit. Every point you exceed it by is 1 point of accuracy.

Match every point of accuracy (in this case, 26-17=9 accuracy) by 1 point up to the weapons maximum damage, in this case 9 points (and a fist will match the blow up to a maximum of 12 points. If you are lucky enough to get more than 12 points of accuracy, the fist will only give up to +12 damage). Then add strength bonus (+15 in Anymans case). 9+9+15=33 points of damage - quite a blow!

The more accurate a character is, the harder they punch. If Anyman had rolled a 20, he gets another D20 to add to it. Say that rolls 20 too. Roll another D20... 19. Total of 59 rolled, plus WC2, plus DC6, total 66. Subtract 17 for the target number to exceed to find a total accuracy of 42. His punch adds to that point for point up to the maximum of 12, and add strength bonus on top. 42+12+15=69 htc! It's a fair bet even the toughest foe will feel that!

Comics are littered with examples of fights that shouldn't last 2 minutes when someone is completely overmatched. Hulk vs anyone save Thing, Thor, Hercules etc. Spiderman wouldn't even hurt Hulk, but a lucky punch might make him notice. Against Firelord Spiderman should not have been able to hurt his foe. Instead the web slinger, when cornered, pummelled Firelord out for the count!

That's what's missing, and it slows fights down to week long drag outs in PBEM, which is why I wanted the change. Hero Points will address the problem of 1 hit wonders - where Superman is taken out by a child with a rock (and a roll of 1000! Near impossible, but still has a faint probability of happening in the millions to one...)

It's by no means cast in stone that we switch to a different game system. I don't want combat to slow us down, and the GH rules are firmly fixed in the street - mid power levels, some way short of the (possible) cosmic power levels the characters may attain. Rather than rewrite the whole thing, I'm trialling DC Heroes (the MEG system from the 80s and 90s) in the Lore Knights game and propose patching the GH rules to speed things up. I sent each of the current players a personal message, looking for comments and suggestions!