Chat about the game...

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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Thu May 30 2013, 10:42

Admin wrote:The main problem with Lionheart is that...squeezing him into 1500 points doesn't really represent how much more powerful he was than the others.

So yeah, don't feel overshadowed by Lionheart - he's meant to be that powerful,

Hey Ryan, thanks for taking a look at Lionheart, and I like what you've pulled out, like dropping flight to make it part of telekensis - that is the sort of smart that keep Lionheart a Psi Agile Pugilist he was before. Paul is right that he always ended up soloing a lot, nature of his character and the missions backstory he lived in. So feel free to take a second crack, if you're so inclined. I love some of the innovations and it may be that we only need take out the power reserve limitation and broaden it. Dodge was one of his most powerful abilities, when faced with enemies he couldn't overcome easily. So being super fast and hard to hit, was almost on a par with how hard he hit, when he hit back. The skills and stuff are mainly to fill him out - after all relying on your own wits and abilities is even more key when you are soloing.

Thanks again

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Admin on Thu May 30 2013, 10:50

Oh, and for the creative types - if anyone fancies cooking up a name and one line 'writeup' of characters that will become a part of the game world (good, bad, or neutral) feel free. Something like:

Hyena - speed, strength, powerful jaws, a bite from him mutates non super victims into actual hyenas (revert when he's knocked out, but they will still have a nasty bite that needs looking at)
Shadowhawk - vigilante with shadow/darkness powers, flight and an unhealthy obsession with beating the crap out of criminals that leaves the heroes wondering - should they stop him or help him?
Laserman - a being composed of energy. Flight, energy blasts, dispersal. Is he here to save the earth, or destroy it? And what does his coming herald? Is he alone, he to warn us, or the scout ahead of an enormous invasion force?

I'll be gathering together characters into a new, updated 'who's who'.

The old (and outdated/too small) 'Who's Who' is (edit, ah for *&&^%%$ sake the link isn't working. Copy and paste this to download: http://www.mediafire.com/view/omn1ju1wtn1/Who's_who.pdf )
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  dunecat on Thu May 30 2013, 20:11

Well, by taking out the limitations on Power Reserve and then improving the powers it applies to you can quickly get him quite a bit more potent, though finding some extra points will be needed. Putting some limitations in on his other powers would likely do the trick.

As for character ideas Paul.

Project Zeta - SMITE run project to build a controlable anti super operative capable of dealing with Class 5 threats. The resulting operative can Mimic and improve on the powers of others. (Alternatively, mimics and drains. Either Mimic + Power Reserve or Mimic + Power Drain). Not meant to be a class 5 super, in that sene he's a failure. I'd actually love to run this as a character of my own, but alluding to something like this could be interesting before hand Very Happy

Thundercrash - Teenaged boy who woke up one day with the power to turn into a bolt of lightening!

Voyeur - Every vision power in the book. It might be cool to hook this character up with someone who can read his memories and project them/copy them to disc.

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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Thu May 30 2013, 22:04

Hmm names and ideas for back story ok:

Clone - genetics have gone too far, animal rights activists injects himself in protest stunt gone wrong. Able to literally clone himself. Been an nuisance to the government owing to clones having a half life, so can't catch real 'Clone'.

Zeitgeist: Not all of Hitler's creatures were locked away, or remained behind bars, one experiment almost forgotten got free.

Major Domo, when the Chinese triads try to make a move on London Gangland turf, they don't come with guns alone.

Carrion: They said he was creepy, always the scent of death about him, how right they were!

Bandwidth: In an age of information a super who can eaves drop and bend any digital signal, or utilise any electrical device for his own ends, either is a major threat or a major asset!

The Watchman, some say he was a super back in the day maybe even a villain who turned his life around before it all went wrong. Some say he's got a debt to pay that he's looking for redemption. Whatever they say, he's watched long enough. This elusive patron, unknown benefactor or plain nuisance when he calls in a favour to some hero or team in which he's helped, there is always some greater scheme at work.

Madam Mask Does your face fit? Some steal good, gold or gems she steals faces of the rich and famous and holds them for ransom.

Ok I'll see if I can dig out some more from my own campaign run years ago. Some of it used existing heroes and villains from the original GH stuff, others was new.

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Thu May 30 2013, 22:22

Think we need a French hero with the silly Pepe Le Pew accent and maybe his powers too. For those who don't know Pepe Le Pew, he is a Warner brothers cartoon character, an amorous skunk. So we give him skunk powers and an overly amorous "I'm God's Gift to Women" type attitude, convinced every woman adores him when it is actually the opposite. Or we could make him a villain. Both have great potential Twisted Evil


Pepé Le Pew is a fictional character in the Warner Bros. Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies series of cartoons, first introduced in 1945. A French skunk that always strolls around in Paris in the springtime, when everyone's thoughts are of "love", Pepé is constantly seeking "l'amour" of his own. However, he has two huge turnoffs to any prospective mates: his malodorous scent, and his refusal to take 'no' for an answer, blissfully convinced that the girl is flirting with him, even when she rejects his advances to the point of physically assaulting him. Pepé is stereotypically French in the way Speedy Gonzales is stereotypically Mexican.
Pepé Le Pew storylines typically involve Pepé in pursuit of what appears to be a female skunk ("la belle femme skunk fatale"). But, usually, the supposed female skunk is actually a black cat (retroactively named Penelope Pussycat) who has had a white stripe painted down her back, often by accident (as by squeezing under a fence with wet white paint). Usually Penelope runs away from him anyway because of his putrid odor or because of his overly assertive manner. As Penelope frantically races to get away from Pepé, he hops after her at a leisurely pace.

Get your hands on the DVD version of Hetalia, an anime that's basically about World War Two but goes backwards in time as well. All the nations are cute high school boys with very distinct personalities that totally insult every nation in every way you can imagine. It is a hilarious series. Haven't read the manga it is based on though. You ought to be able to create a lot of national heroes and villains from watching a few episodes.

http://www.hetarchive.net/characters.php
http://www.funimation.com/hetalia - you can watch a few episodes free on your computer if you can stream video on it.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Admin on Fri May 31 2013, 10:31

Great stuff on the names, David that 'pepe' character sounds like a real sleazebag - maybe pheromone powers (over women I guess) and a bunch of female assassin/sidekick(ers), smoking jacket, cigarette holder... a male version of Cruella de ville?

As for posting - will TRY to get another update for everyone in today, but rushing around like a nutter (going tonight at 23.50, back wed 5th june). I *might* be able to update on my phone (there'll be times where I'm sitting around waiting for the racing to start) but no idea what the phone signal will be like on the island, if any (in the remote parts).

So, yeah, have a good few days off - Lore knights new issue when I get back (sorry!) and David M should have Haunt back up and running in my next post, fingers crossed.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Fri May 31 2013, 13:28

Great stuff on the names, David that 'pepe' character sounds like a real sleazebag - maybe pheromone powers (over women I guess) and a bunch of female assassin/sidekick(ers), smoking jacket, cigarette holder... a male version of Cruella de ville?

Or dress him up like on of those Apache dancers - Beret, striped shirt, pants, bandana around the neck, pencil thin mustache and a cigarette dangling from his lips. Cool


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=apache+dancer&view=detail&mid=60C155D74B406CDA9BEB60C155D74B406CDA9BEB&first=41&FORM=NVPFVR
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri May 31 2013, 14:29

dunecat wrote:Well, by taking out the limitations on Power Reserve and then improving the powers it applies to you can quickly get him quite a bit more potent, though finding some extra points will be needed. Putting some limitations in on his other powers would likely do the trick.

Dunecat, Paul made a point in our ongoing adventure, that going with power reserve over adrenaline rush makes for a more predictable approach that is also more consistent. My dice fails are legendary! My characters have gotten into more scrapes (Frostbite in particular) with bad dice rolls, more than any other.

Anyway, I don't know what points Lionheart should be working with, but if the 15 AP isn't a problem, then could you see what could be done with the character on the basis of him not having the restrictions the others have. I am keen to tie down his powers, as right now I find it harder and harder to work out what options I have in a given game as everything has changed around so much.

If Lionheart is going solo (yeah for me- I'm a very fast poster so going solo means I don't get ahead of everyone else and keep Paul on his toes ;-) will mean I can have some fun at levels that the team need not worry about.

Paul what sort of Budget should we be using if we use the power reserve model?

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Admin on Fri May 31 2013, 15:06

Lionheart is a 2000-2500 point character when compared to the others, probably aiming for the 20-25 AP level for his highest abilities. That's why he feels so 'nerfed' compared to the rest of the team. I have to admit, I've never seen him one shotted so easily as the first few fights of this new game Sad

An easier way of playing with the adrenaline surge is simply to state with every post, or have a 'standing' order, which stat will get a boost.

Dex
Str
Will
Int
Superspeed (Which can be used to substitute for Dex and is easier to push)

e.g. Lionheart (B10 M10 SP9 Push Int) and if any dice actions are required in the round, I'll first push his intelligence then make the check for the dice action.

If you prefer to go with power reserve, we can do that option as easily. With 2000-2500 points there's probably no need for power reserve.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Admin on Fri May 31 2013, 15:09

Oh and remember - any time Lionheart is in danger he gets a Danger Sense check. If that passes, his fluid form can be used (uses 1 auto action) which makes him harder to hit/hurt. Physically, he'll be a match for anyone with the new incarnation. Mystically, less so, and he should be reasonably tough to crack mentally.

If we were writing up the Vanguard as they were (Dark Power) I should think the characters would be 5000+ points or more. They'd have abilities in the 30s, maybe higher (especially travel powers)

All this probably seems like a lot compared to DC and Marvel characters, but the writeups for those characters cost thousands of points (can't remember off top of head, but Superman probably costs 5000+) and characters like Darkseid/Thanos cost even more.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Fri May 31 2013, 15:29

Of course this game is designed to be "equal" in attacks and defense. Batman has a good chance of hitting Superman and doing serious damage to him in one hit, or at least he did in version one and two of this game. In this version with his 9 Dex against Superman's 15 Dex, he needs to roll a 15 to hit him, not impossible to do but still a decent chance to hit.

It is also why the game stresses even most villains only do bashing damage and not killing damage since combat is supposed to be short and sweet, just a few rounds long in most cases. heck, the combat example between Superman and Doomsday is only 5 phases or rounds long. And you are supposed to be spending Hero Points like a thirsty man drinking water. HP to increase your initiative, HP to increase your chance to hit, HP to increase your amount of damage, HP to avoid being hit, HP to reduce damage taken. In the combat example, the player playing Superman spent 66 HP in 5 rounds of combat!

We jumped into a combat that wouldn't have been so damaging to us if we all had say 50 HP to spend in it but we had less than five each or none at all. That's why it is such a horrendous fight at the moment. Next fight, after we get lots of HP, will be totally different. clown
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Admin on Fri May 31 2013, 16:42

Yup, you nailed it with the HP thing. I am playing in (on/off, like weeks between posts sometimes) a Superman/Batman DC Heroes module and I'm running superman. Quite literally burned through 150hp in one fight and STILL got taken down (this is Superman remember) in about 3 rounds. No kidding.

My dice were like Daves (after a while I stopped rolling my eyes at the 2s and 3s) and the module is ridiculously weighted against he characters. Batman has a task with an Ov/Rv of 25 (!) to discover a holographic emitter in the Jokers cell, for example. Crazy. Even with Hero points he was looking at a roll of 13 or more to succeed. Without them? A roll of 28, on 2D10 (off the top of my head).

So yeah, things might seem tricky thus far in this game but the modules are bonkers.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri May 31 2013, 18:58

Admin wrote:Lionheart is a 2000-2500 point character when compared to the others, probably aiming for the 20-25 AP level for his highest abilities. That's why he feels so 'nerfed' compared to the rest of the team. I have to admit, I've never seen him one shotted so easily as the first few fights of this new game Sad

I think that is because the power levels from GH to DC/BotH is so different. As your conversation with Dave mentions by way of HP and all that. And for the longest time, with the use of the Dark Power lets be honest there hasn't been a huge reliance on dice at all. No wonder when the dice play a part and we're settling into a new set of rules, that things get skewed.

Anyway I am looking forward to what Dunecat can do with a 2k-2.5k Lionheart. I'd like him to be as close to 2k as possible, so that he is still challenged and doesn't overshadow the group, when he returns. But it makes sense to have Lionheart be solo, that way I can post every day and not have to worry about the others keeping up. Frostbite can be my hand in the larger group, which just goes slower anyway.

Admin wrote:An easier way of playing with the adrenaline surge is simply to state with every post, or have a 'standing' order, which stat will get a boost.

I think we can use the Adrenalin push, but I'd like to see what Dunecat turns out and then I can make a final choice as to what suits better. I'm putting together a Character sheet that will include annotated notes on the powers (even substitute names - for me) to give me a one place piece to glance at when it comes to playing him. It might fast track my understanding of the game better as we go along.

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  dunecat on Fri May 31 2013, 19:40

So should I work with some kind of ceiling, or just turn things up to eleven? Also I'll get a fixed version of stormbreaker made up when I get home. However he has 14 Dex, performing a dodge puts him in the 16-18 group.

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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri May 31 2013, 20:59

dunecat wrote:So should I work with some kind of ceiling, or just turn things up to eleven? Also I'll get a fixed version of stormbreaker made up when I get home. However he has 14 Dex, performing a dodge puts him in the 16-18 group.

Yeah work with a ceiling, as close to 2000 points as possible, but certainly no more than 2500. But only if you want to, ultimately its a help to me to know what suits making Lionheart as close to what he was under the old system whilst utilising the advantages of the new. However please don't if you've better things to do. We can work with the Adrenaline surge mechanic, but what interested me was that you talked about the power reserve pool being more consistent.

Under the old system, when Lionheart boasted a power - it was boasted, not chance to fail. It might still not be powerful enough, but it did give him a fighting chance, even when he went up against foes that were way superior to him. Where I don't like the Adrenaline surge so much, is that its success ultimate relies on the dice just to boast it. That seems unreliable...however what do I know. I only play the guy, and when it comes to the rules I really am way out of my league ;-). So have fun, if you want, if not I'll stick with him as Paul listed him and go with that.

Thanks

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  dunecat on Fri May 31 2013, 22:08

Well, there's two ways to go about improving Lionheart if I have more points to work with. Simply throw points into Power Reserve, or improve the things that Power Reserve can boost. The second option is probably the most expensive of the two. If you go the rout of improving just Power Reserve, then putting it up to 13 is enough to get you to 20 strength, or 22 Superspeed. By the book, anything over 16 APs of speed affects the earths environment and weather patterns. At 22 speed you could, by the book, kill all life living on the planets surface with about twenty minutes of dedicated running. A more balanced point layout would be to split between Superspeed and Str and result in 15 Superspeed and 14 Str. That actually places you handily on par with the team while also letting you ramp things up to much higher levels, though only selectively.

The second option, as Paul mentioned is doing away with Power Reserve completely and just ramping each power up on its own. Lionheart would become more powerful over all, but likely lose some of his flavor. I also probably couldn't keep him as powerful while staying around 2000 points.

Option three is a little of both, crank his Power Reserve up to 13 (takes you to around 1700) and then up the rest of his powers until you hit about 2000. That rout will end up with the most powerful results. Superman floats around 25 strength and 18 body to put that in perspective.

Now, before I get into that. What would you say his top three highest powers/abilities should be? Because right now I'm building off of a very incomplete idea of what the character is.

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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri May 31 2013, 22:20

dunecat wrote:Now, before I get into that. What would you say his top three highest powers/abilities should be? Because right now I'm building off of a very incomplete idea of what the character is.

Oh that is easy, his Psi abilities have always been front and centre, second Agility & speed the two feed off one another and then it would be either his martial ability (though that is tied in agility and speed) or skills - he is a bit like a swiss army knife when it comes to skills.

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Fri May 31 2013, 23:16

Well, Paul did say 20-25 range for the highest power you have. Maybe that's Dex or Superspeed?
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  dunecat on Sat Jun 01 2013, 00:07

Ok, here's another try at it. Mental powers are pumped up, as is Power Reserve, Superspeed and Forcefield. With this build you can pump several stats up into the 20ish range with the highest being Empathy, Telepathy, Superspeed and Strength up to 21. This lets Empathy and Telepathy effect anything within 2048 Miles. That's also the distance you can cover in 4 seconds with Superspeed (the speed of light is at 28 APs I believe). For Strength this allows you to lift a maximum of 50,000 tons. At that point Lionheart can actually THROW a Submarine (only 20 feet, but still..).

This makes Lionheart roughly even physically and mentally, though in combat you would still likely favor physical options as your mental to physical ranged attack isn't as potent as a fully pumped superspeed attack would be. Your mind blast on the other hand totals up to 20 APs when fully pumped. Unless Paul has some very scary telepaths around you're probably the most powerful mentalist on the planet at this point.

Dex 8 (70) Str^ 8 (60) Body 9 (72)
Int 8 (70) Will 5 (24) Mind 9 (72)
Inf 8 (70) Aura 5 (24) Spirit 9 (72)

(534)

Sensing Powers:

8 Analytical Smell 10/4 (50)

8 Directional Hearing 5/3 (35)

7 Super Hearing 5/1 (13)

8 Telescopic Vision 5/1 (15)

8 Danger Sense 25/3 (55)

(168)


Mental Powers:

8 Empathy^ 20/4 (60)

4 Mental Blast^ 15/3 (25)

7 Mind Blast^ 20/3 (44)

10 Mind Field 20/6 (84)
- Self only -2

5 Mind Probe^ 20/3 (32)

7 Telekinesis^ 15/6 (55)
- Flight Speed capped at 14 APs-1

8 Telepathy^ 20/4 (60)

4 Postcognition^ 15/2 (21)

(326)

Physical Powers:

7 Regeneration 25/8 (89)

8 Superspeed^ 25/8 (105)

6 Sealed Systems 5/5 (35)

7 Force Field 30/6 (100)
- Attack through +1FC x2BC, Self Only -2

(329)

13 Power Reserve 150/10 (379)
- Fatiguing -2, Connected to Str, Empathy, Mental Blast, Mind Blast, Mind Probe, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Postcognition, Superspeed +30 BC

Skills

8 Accrobatics 15/7 (95)
- Reflexive Dodge +1*

8 Thief 10/9 (100)

8 Detective 10/8 (90)

8 Medicine 5/7 (75)

8 Martial Artist 25/7 (95)

8 Vehicles 5/5 (55)


^ Powers marked with this may receive points from Power Reserve

*Reflexive dodge allows for a partial dodge maneuver to be performed if the character has already performed an action for the round. They gain half the normal advantage for a dodge with Acrobatics (1/2 acrobatics added to OV) and give up their next dice action. Additionally it takes two auto actions to move in the round where a dice action is lost to this maneuver.

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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Sat Jun 01 2013, 03:05

your "normal" 8 Strength means you can lift between 3-6 tons before enhancement. Your 9 Body means that you are bulletproof, up to and including high caliber military rifles but bombs still get you. Your sealed systems is good for an hour. Regen of 7 means you heal every 32 seconds. Superspeed of 8 means you can run just over a 1/4 mile in 4 seconds; superspeed of 21 can cover 2000+ miles in 4 seconds or one round.

Your superspeed easily beats the Wally West slower Flash superspeed of 14 but doesn't beat the Golden Age Flash's superspeed of 24.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Sat Jun 01 2013, 10:39

Thanks once again Dunecat for looking at this. Later on I've got to redo my D&D next character, every time a new iteration of the rules comes out I have to do him over again. I hate it. You can imagine that doing the same with any of my characters doesn't come easy to me.

With rules that offer so many choices, I find its increasingly my least favourite part of the game. So please forgive my being picky. Its only because the 'feel' of Lionheart is so important to me, more than the numbers.

Hence it feels like even a slight change makes him overshoot what I think of him as. So I love what you've done but lets tone it down so that Lionheart isn't in Supermans league, more Martian Manhunter - although that might be off. Since I only known JJ from the comics not the dc rules.

Anyway given 19+ is earth shattering - that is execesive. Lionheart is powerful, within the space he occupies. He doesn't normally spin around and cause a 200 mile radious tornado for instance. Way too much. But he might be able to do that within a 50' radius. So think more focused. Strength was high enough that he could lift a very large tank and throw it. Speed fast but more like Quicksilver than Flash. Psi powers were always amazing, but he used to take a hit physically as well. His dodge, athletics/acrobatics were untouchable and combined with speed in a small space (note focus again - not earth shattering) meant he could never be touched - usually. When he chose to hit someone he had a mean blow, owing to his skills in hand to hand combat.

I realise that what I am describing is difficult because the old system we used to use was so street level compared to the scale in DCH and what is more the scale ramps up so fast within a few easy steps. I feel its this level of scale that is throwing me, my temptation is to ramp it down, whereas within the scope of this game, it might be that we can afford to go higher and I'm just being too conservative. Lionheart was Paul's original character, but I've played him longer than anyone now and so its important I learn from this that maybe he is even more powerful than I've been used to - because the game allows for that level without it being game breaking. So take what I say here, with that in mind.

The power reserve was a way by which Lionheart could push a power beyond its normal means. Hand to hand combat like Captain America more than Batman (who to me would always be the clear winner). I don't mind going over 15, but it should be that 15 is sustainable whereas +15-19 is only in short bursts and only on, his speed, psi ability and dodging/martial arts. Even then I'd suggest some sort of recharge period but that's clumsy, it was always the case before that it sort of had its own limitations so I never could abuse it. Having to allocate points, itself required forward thinking. I quite like the fact that Lionheart is tough, but could still fail. But that if it happened once in 10 adventures that would be about right, as opposed to every other adventure he got knocked out again and was taken captive.

Ok sorry to be nit picky, but I can see that the more we discuss this, that the way DCH ramps up is one factor I still find harder to get my head around and that secondly the way the game handles the powers is itself something we have to be judicious about to try and get right.

Thanks again Dunecat, nearly there I feel.

Oh by the way can you explain the numbers so for instance:

8 Analytical Smell 10/4 (50)

What does the red number stand for and opposed to the two numbers in brown and I presume the number in brackets is the actual points cost for this level of power?

Thanks.

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Sat Jun 01 2013, 12:56

Dunecat is the expert when it comes to making the characters but I can tell you that if you only wanted, for example, to make a 50' tornado wouldn't be very powerful normally, that's like 2-3 APs in strength. He would probably have to put some kind of limitation on the power about reduced area of effect and still have it be powerful enough to affect many powered types.

It is kind of hard to wrap ones head around the fact that a increase of 1 AP effectively doubles the time/speed/strength etc.

To lift a semi-truck, which I guess is the equivalent of a bus in weight, you need an 8 Strength. To throw it 80' [40' is the next AP down], you need 3 more Strength for a total of 11 strength [If I figured out weight and throwing distance correctly]

example
The Haunt has a 13 Strength, which means he can pick up a Boeing 747. Couldn't throw it but could pick it up. The heaviest object that he can pick up and throw a hundred yards is a semi-truck or 6.5 tons. The heaviest object he can throw 80' would be 25 tons or a DC-9 Airplane. In the old game, Anyman had a super strength level of two which is what I carried over into the new rules for the Haunt, figuring a 13 was about right for low super strength level 2.

Martian Manhunter's stats look like this: Dex 7 Str 18 Body 15 Int 9 Will 9 Mind 8 Influ 7 Aura 7 Spirit 6
His telepathy and Mind Probe are both at 6; his telescopic and X-Ray vision are at 8; his superspeed is at 5. His two strongest powers are his invulnerability at 16 and his flight at 13.

Wonder Woman, BTW, sits at Dex 13 Str 16 Body 13 Int 9 Will 12 Mind 10 Influ 10 Aura 9 Spirit 10
Flight 14 and Running 7 are her two biggest powers

Superboy, this is before he figured out he had tactile telekinesis, who was created at the Death of Superman storyline looks like this:
Dex 13 Str 22 Body 13 Int 4 Will 6 Mind 5 Influ 7 Aura 7 Will 8
His various hearing powers are set at 8. His various vision powers are between 13 and 15. His flight is 17 and his superspeed is 10

Captain Marvel looks like this:
Dex 14 Str 20 Body 14 Int 4 Will 10 Mind 7 Influ 4 Aura 7 Spirit 7
Flight 14, superspeed 13, systemic antidote 10, invulnerability 18

Superman's highest two powers are his Str of 25 and his Invulnerability of 22. His various hearing powers are at 8 and his vision powers range from 13-15. Flight of 18 and superspeed of 11. Body 18, Dex 15. All other stats between 10 and 20

Those with Superbreath, power ranges between 10 and 12.
Your telescopic vision of 8 means you can see something 1/2 mile away as clearly as the rest of us could see the same object 10 feet away. A 13 Telescopic means you can see that same object 16 miles away.


The above numbers might give you an idea of how powerful you want your various powers and stats to be. I suggest you list what kinds of stats and power levels you want for each power using the above stuff as guidelines and then lets sit back and watch Dunecat do his magic! albino
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Sat Jun 01 2013, 13:59

DavidMcMahon wrote:Dunecat is the expert when it comes to making the characters but ...The above numbers might give you an idea of how powerful you want your various powers and stats to be. I suggest you list what kinds of stats and power levels you want for each power using the above stuff as guidelines and then lets sit back and watch Dunecat do his magic! albino

Thanks Dave, you've clearly spent some time with these rules. Ok so if I go with what seems right - to me,

I tend to think in terms of primary attributes, so if I am missing something here, it might be that the scale still seems so low. 8 seems like average 12 super athelete and 16+ as superhuman. If the range when from 1 -40 with superman being at the 40s then it would make a lot more sense but then that is because I've grown up so much around AD&D stats and 4th Edition plus GH rules.

Ok so powers I think we should change I'll make in red, beside the original number and you can work out cost, if you so wish. Stats on reflection and from what Dave said seem ok, especially when I compare it to what he was before a lot of his neat funky stuff came from his power and his Hyper Kenesis, or what we would now refer to as power reserve.

Sensing Powers:
These all seem fine.

Mental Powers:

8 Empathy^ 20/4 (60) -this need not go above 15 and in fact can be more around 12.

4 Mental Blast^ 15/3 (25)
7 Mind Blast^ 20/3 (44) [if I understand correctly one of these is physical and one mental, originally Lionheart only had Psi blast which was entirely mental so lets go back to that, physical stuff was always hand to hand unless he threw something. If there are sufficient points to warrant it, we can return the physical Psi blast].

10 Mind Field 20/6 (84) again this seems a bit high, lets drop it down to 18 max
- Self only -2

5 Mind Probe^ 20/3 (32) Again lets make this 18

7 Telekinesis^ 15/6 (55)
- Flight Speed capped at 14 APs-1

8 Telepathy^ 20/4 (60) This was never that powerful, so lets drop it down to 15

4 Postcognition^ 15/2 (21) - I never had this power before, that is also something new, a lot in DC is granular, still I don't mind.

(326)

Physical Powers:
7 Regeneration 25/8 (89) - Regen in GH was just easier, so 25 seems excessive, but being a solo I think this should stand, besides originally it was one of LH highest stats, it got changed along the way, but its good to see it back.
8 Superspeed^ 25/8 (105) - This should match Quicksilver not the Flash in terms of speed, but flight should also be able to be as quick, if he pushes it - I liked how you linked this to telekensis, which in GH was horrendously underpowered and impossible to use this way. Besides which if Superman and flash are normally matched (they were when I was reading DC comics,) and Superman's speed is 11, then 25 seems way over the top. Lets keep it between 15-18
6 Sealed Systems 5/5 (35)
7 Force Field 30/6 (100) 30 for force field seems way too much, make it half that,
- Attack through +1FC x2BC, Self Only -2

(329)

13 Power Reserve 150/10 (379)
- Fatiguing -2, Connected to Str, Empathy, Mental Blast, Mind Blast, Mind Probe, Telekinesis, Telepathy, Postcognition, Superspeed +30 BC

Skills

8 Accrobatics 15/7 (95)
- Reflexive Dodge +1*

8 Thief 10/9 (100)

8 Detective 10/8 (90)

8 Medicine 5/7 (75)

8 Martial Artist 25/7 (95) Martial Artist 25, Batmans is only 9 although it says its linked, but I am not sure what to. Anyway Lionheart should be no higher than Batman in this skill.

8 Vehicles 5/5 (55)

Ok that seems generally more in line with what I think Lionheart should be, even in his new evolved form. Paul can have the final say, but I'd value other people's opinions. Thanks for helping me through this one as well Dave and Dunecat.

Sj
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  DavidMcMahon on Sat Jun 01 2013, 17:51


Thanks Dave, you've clearly spent some time with these rules. Ok so if I go with what seems right - to me,

I've read the charts more than the rules so that part I understand well.

ah, this may be where some confusion lies. The numbers by each power like "4 Mental Blast^ 15/3 (25)" are a bit confusing until you understand the rules for listing them - the 4 is how many APs of power you have in Mental Blast; the 15/3 is the base cost of buying the power [15] and the Factor Cost of each level of AP you purchase [3]. The number in parenthesizes is the total cost for the power (25). And the "^" means it uses your reserve pool or whatever you guys are calling it.

So this: "10 Mind Field 20/6 (84) - Self only -2"
Actually means, you only have 10 AP in it, not the 20 I think you think you have. It's base cost for the power is 20 and the factor cost of buying levels in it is 6 and a 10 AP mind power costs 84 points

So the number BEFORE the power name is the actual AP levels of power you have in it. Does that help?

And if I understand Regeneration properly [and I don't necessarily], having a 10 in Regeneration means you heal bashing damage every single round of combat. Not sure how quickly you heal killing damage though, at that level but it is slower. You currently have a 7 Regen which is healing bashing damage once every thirty seconds [which is equal to 3 APs of time]

Human normal on stats is 2-3 with max human normal at 5-6 [Olympic athlete level/Mensa Candidate level]. Heroes, like Batman, though human get to cheat on their stats and get higher than that.

I found a Legion of Super-Hero module for this game and it has Tellus' mental powers listed. He's the water-breathing yellow fish/humanoid looking guy who usually has a helmet of water over his head. This may help you figure out power levels for your mental abilities:

Dex 4 Str 6 Body 8
Int 10 Will 9 Mind 10
Infl 3 Aura 3 Spirit 4
Mind Probe 11, Telekinesis 7, Telepathy 21, Water Freedom 5
And all Legion Flight Rings provide a Flight of 12 and a Sealed Systems of 18

But also remember, you are basically 500-800 points more powerful than the rest of the team. So you are pretty much our Superman to our Justice League. Everyone got a hike boost in power levels when you went through the time tunnel, which is why for the rest of us, our best powers are in the 13-15 range.

Suggest you look over the Benchmark AP Chart in the back of Blood of Heroes or the DC Hero rules, they are the same. It's in the very back of the book [page 354 in BOH and page 180 in DC Heroes]. Figure out from that the maximum levels you want in each power so that's your cap and then plan on spending the rest of your points in skills and connections and other advantages.

Haven't really read the mental powers descriptions so you will probably have to do that to figure out how strong such things should be. But personally, since you are our Superman, I think you should have one or two powers in the 21-25 range and the rest in the 11-20 range.
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Re: Chat about the game...

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Sat Jun 01 2013, 21:30

Oh blast that is what I should have waited for to find out. Ok people please make your annotations clearer
;-)

Now I understand it all reads fine. Ok lets run with this as the final version, unless Dunecat can think of anything else to add. Ok lets run with this, I am sure that the finer details I can pick up along the way. I'm eager to dive back in knowing that we've finally begun to get Lionheart back to what he was, but also what he should be in this brave new world.

Thanks Dunecat, Dave and Paul for your patience.

Right now to sort out my Character sheet ;-)

Sj
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