Welcome, new players and old!

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 27 2013, 14:51

No worries mate, it's been bonkers lately and my *normal* posting rate is 'all over the place' right now. Starting on Lionhearts write up...
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  smaug on Wed Feb 27 2013, 21:09

And Im Ross aka silver sentinel and late as always. Welcome Ryan, Im reasonably new at this too although i will try to answer any questions. Hope you find it as enjoyable as i have.

Nice character sheet Paul, never mind constantine i never knew Steve jenson was that smart although it would help with creation of certain things e.g. Plans as he has had limited use of them. I also didn't think his dex was so high, would his suit slow him down or would strength over ride that as it would take strength to move the suit?

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Wed Feb 27 2013, 22:23

Hiya Ross, with regards Sentinel:

The 'genius' thing is your call - his suit is more than just a suit of clanking armour, and with a little experimentation Sentinel can add things like sensors, energy absorption and so on. He doesn't have to know how all that stuff works, he just knows. Or we can ditch the genius, make the suit the only use of Fabrication he can manage and forget the possible creation of planes, cars, computers and so on.

Dex is middle of the road for a Superhero, probably somewhat low in fact. Batman is a 9, most characters in the comics you can think of are slightly lower or somewhat higher than that, and 7 Dex is firmly in the ballpark of starting characters (which Sentinel is not). He won't find it easy or hard to hit in a fist fight, and he's not superhuman fast, but certainly good enough to take on half a dozen thugs without his suit. His strength is bordering on Superhuman, his Body IS superhuman - he's hard to kill.

Truth told Sentinel is a flying blaster/brick and there were quite a few points left to spend compared to the other two. He's smart but not overly so, and not particularly resistant against mental or mystical attacks either. The Fabrication power is his main thing. He can make a suit of armour (after a Metal Manipulation roll) so it takes 2 rounds to conjure up a suit (and two successful rolls) and the suit isn't a permanent thing - it reverts to being metal (as opposed to the usual vanishing into thin air with this power) after a certain length of time, so he'll need to make the roll again to stop it reverting or risk being unarmoured.

There's more conventional ways of doing this - we can simply assume he summons a suit of armour and has a fixed set of powers (Flight, Skin Armour, Energy Blast, maybe a sense like sonar, Sealed Systems for holding breath and so on) that takes a successful roll with metal manipulation to create the suit, so as to be more true to the character.

I've assumed the trip through time and space across alternate realities explains the apparent jump in power of the characters. Frostbite now flies at hundreds of miles an hour instead of floating gently through the air at walking pace, The Haunt (was Anyman) can toss a tank around with ease instead of being able to toss a car about, Sentinel can blow holes in a battleships armour if he conjures up a suit powerful enough, or makes a suit then makes a pair of energy blasters to wear on his wrists.

These are first drafts - if you want changes - making the characters weaker, stronger, more versatile (say with more skills or a wider range of powers) that's fine, just give me a clue Smile

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  dunecat on Wed Feb 27 2013, 22:38

Thanks for the greeting guys! I'm hoping to be around for a while too. Very Happy

I gave it a little thought earlier about the Ice production power as mentioned. Turns out 8,000 cubic feet is a block of ice 20 feet on a side. (20x20x20) There's a couple ways to think of that, either you can make what ever you want that fits inside of that space, or you can create that much ice and spread it out as much as you like.. meaning that if you were to make rooms with 1 or 2 foot thick walls you could make quite a large structure with that power. Cool I personally prefer the second reading of that.. then again I use force manipulation on my other game with Paul, which is also limited in volume by how many APs I have. I might be a touch biased xP

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  DavidMcMahon on Wed Feb 27 2013, 22:56

My math suck, how much of a river can you coat with two feet of ice with that kind of power?
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Thu Feb 28 2013, 00:20

Cubic feet always puzzled me. I always thought it was 8000 x 8000 x 8000 feet but I think Ryan has it right :S 8000 cubic feet equals 400 square feet apparently.

*shrug*

Anyway, here comes Lionhearts character sheet. Lionheart was originally a character of mine nigh on 10 years ago in a previous game which is long since ended. He was introduced as plot device into this game (along with a number of characters from the old game as NPCs) and Dave E (Frostbite) took him over as PC in addition to Frostbite, because Dave is the fastest poster I know of in PBP Smile Dave has owned/run Lionheart for far longer than I ever did as a player so I consider him Daves character. Probably a good thing as I was obsessed with tweaking his costume every couple of days... Rolling Eyes

He was an average character in the Vanguard and almost died a few times, but after finally achieving his life saving goal in the previous game his ultimate evolution was uncovered and he became the most powerful Superhuman in the 1940s era game until the rest of the Vanguard gained godlike status when they became symbiotes with extradimensional entities. Then he became the weakest member of the Vanguard team Smile When they lost those powers he became the most powerful member again, though with the cap (max 15) he's no more effective than the others, just a (by far) better all rounder.

Most of his powers are senses - they were covered under the catch all 'Animal Senses' in the old game. In addition to that in the old game he was astonishingly fast - he could just about avoid anything apart from Area attacks thanks to Agility, speed and inhuman reactions. He'd have shown Spiderman how to do it, put it that way. In this game, less so. He does have superspeed (I used DC Heroes BC25 FC5 Superspeed as Blood of Heroes has it FC8 and I'm not quite sure why, though it does give the option of multiple dice actions per round which I'm not adding to the character).

Most of his abilities are low APs but he has Power Reserve (which was house ruled in the old game to do the same thing). You basically get 10 points every round to disperse between certain abilities like Flight, Strength, Telekinesis etc. Also note that his main attacks in the old game (now covered by Mental Blast and Mind Blast) caused him injury when he used them, and they do so here too (fatiguing). So whilst he looks like he can do practically anything, remember most of it is senses/skills or low defensive powers, and the mental/movement stuff is where he excels when he puts Power Reserve to work. The character was originally a Mentalist with superspeed and agility, then changed at some point to become more versatile. He was vulnerable to gold, ditched the vulnerability, now its back again. I'm mean like that, but it's not too bad Razz

No idea how the character sheet will turn out - I patched two sheets together with Paint Shop Pro. Only sealed systems breaks the 15 rule, which can be boosted to 19APs (2 weeks) but in doing so renders Lionheart pretty useless at anything else, so it won't get used to that potential I'm fairly sure.

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  DavidMcMahon on Thu Feb 28 2013, 00:28

Oh Lord! I didn't realize it but both Lionheart and Haunt have the same last name - King. Wonder if they might be related in this new universe, depending on if he is the old Lionheart or a new Lionheart. Haunt is American so it would probably be distant relationship, maybe their grandfathers or great-fathers were brothers?

Or heck, maybe Lionheart is Haunt's grandfather in this universe or at least his grandfather is the exact same man Lionheart is or was in this universe, having lived a normal life and died recently.
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Thu Feb 28 2013, 00:35

Forgot to add - Lionheart is a 1500HP character with 50HP from Background etc, so that explains why he has such a long character sheet. In theory Silver Sentinel could have most of those abilities if he fabricated a suit and rolled like, 100 or so on 2D10 (I think with repeating doubles the most I ever rolled was fifty odd) but each character has their own merits.

So far:

The Haunt (David M) - shapechanging avenger who is merciless on crime and criminals, who he scares witless
Frostbite (Dave E) - Frosty hero with the ability to generate intense cold and become intangible, plus he has a sentient computer program that lives inside his head (powers were rolled randomly initially for the old game. Dave came up with a right hotch potch...)
Silver Sentinel (Ross) - able to control metal, and clothe himself in a super powered suit of his own design. His adventures in deep space and melding with spaceships from alien galaxies taught him that Earth technology is like a cavemans in comparison to what's out there.
Lionheart (Dave E) - the ultimate evolution of the future cop (PSI Corps Agent) and far more powerful than he originally was. He's seen more than his share of heartache as he's seen friends die, despite his best efforts and with all his powers.

Lionheart will most likely solo a lot of the time, but we'll see how it goes. For the benefit of the new players it used to go - Solo mission, Team Mission, Solo mission, Team mission etc.
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Thu Feb 28 2013, 00:37

DavidMcMahon wrote:Oh Lord! I didn't realize it but both Lionheart and Haunt have the same last name - King. Wonder if they might be related in this new universe, depending on if he is the old Lionheart or a new Lionheart. Haunt is American so it would probably be distant relationship, maybe their grandfathers or great-fathers were brothers?

Or heck, maybe Lionheart is Haunt's grandfather in this universe or at least his grandfather is the exact same man Lionheart is or was in this universe, having lived a normal life and died recently.

Stranger things have happened Smile Lionheart came from the future (2193) originally, but the King Family (his gene donors and adoptive parents after Lionheart was born in a lab) could well stem from a superhero from the past Smile, that's Dave (E)'s call Smile
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  dunecat on Thu Feb 28 2013, 01:16

8000 cubic feet is a cube that is 400 cubic feet to a side. Essentially there are 8000 one foot cubes in it. As for how much river that can cover.. it could make 10 20x20 sheets that were two feet thick. For visualization, 20 feet is two stories up. Hope that helps.

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  DavidMcMahon on Thu Feb 28 2013, 02:23

Stranger things have happened Lionheart came from the future (2193) originally, but the King Family (his gene donors and adoptive parents after Lionheart was born in a lab) could well stem from a superhero from the past , that's Dave (E)'s call .

Threre's this old song called I Am My Own Grandpa! And this comes to mind after reading the above. Twisted Evil

And thanks about the ice. Never actally seen the Thames River but it sounds like he could freeze a great big swath of it all away across, if he wanted too, and stronger enough to move across it.
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Thu Feb 28 2013, 13:52

DavidMcMahon wrote:My math suck, how much of a river can you coat with two feet of ice with that kind of power?

Yeah me to, and puzzles Wink.

Anyway thanks for putting Lionheart together Paul, I think if I had done it you'd still be waiting when the game begun. Anyway I think as regards to tweaking I'd like to just see how things play out, if what happens in reality doesn't match what I imagine of the characters in my head, then I'll be interested in swapping around the numbers.

Lionheart is tricky to fit into the DC concept and I can see you've done your best to make a unusual character fit within the rules. Frostbite has little in the way of skills that I think will need to change, as being both Joe's were soldiers and also one a sort of semi scientist that should be reflected in their make up. But I appreciate with a point by system its where you loose some to gain others. I do like the Frostbite really has some Bite in his powers now, but we might want to bring Ice Production down a tad, so we can up his skills and fill him out a bit more. However I am willing to forego that for the present until we see, again how this plays out.

Sj
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Thu Feb 28 2013, 15:14

I'll be going over Haunt/Anyman again so will look at Frostbite later on as well. With that Ice Production being so expensive there may be room for it being lowered to 11 and the points saved to give him an Energy Blast. Ice Production comes with its own version of Energy Blast, but if we make the separate Energy Blast more powerful (15APs) but with the possibility of either harming/tiring him out (Fatiguing) or a chance of burning out (Serious Burnout) that will bring the cost down (probably to around 30 odd points I should think, don't have the book to hand at the moment) and you can use the 'backup' of 11APs Ice Production. At any rate, easily done.
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Thu Feb 28 2013, 17:01

Admin wrote:I'll be going over Haunt/Anyman again so will look at Frostbite later on as well. With that Ice Production being so expensive there may be room for it being lowered to 11 and the points saved to give him an Energy Blast. Ice Production comes with its own version of Energy Blast, but if we make the separate Energy Blast more powerful (15APs) but with the possibility of either harming/tiring him out (Fatiguing) or a chance of burning out (Serious Burnout) that will bring the cost down (probably to around 30 odd points I should think, don't have the book to hand at the moment) and you can use the 'backup' of 11APs Ice Production. At any rate, easily done.

Sounds like a plan, especially as we can tweak as we go Smile

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  smaug on Thu Feb 28 2013, 21:48

No you are right Paul sounds really good, to keep in keeping with sentinels mind still stuck in the 1940s i think sentinel should have a steam punkish look to his tec that he creates like the wrist blasters.

I suppose he 'genius' level regards metal forming prob has improved even if like you said he doesn't understand how it works due to his past experience with his creations like MARO, although he was assisted by the dark shadow prince maybe some of the 'genius' rubbed off. So i think his skill should rely on some kind military skill/training heavily because of his past which he is still clinging to.

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Fri Mar 01 2013, 00:50

Well I think you're about set then Ross, just need to fill in some blanks is all.

As for the other guys:

The Haunt ver 02. Gave 50Hp for background, personality, description and picture (need to get the pics you sent off my main computer) and he lost a point of wealth - hey, actors are supposed to be skint more of the time. Well, the proper ones anyway. Hollywood proves you don't have to be talented actor to make loads of money Razz



Influence, Charisma and Artist jump to 7, more in line with an expert actor and nigh on world class. The costume doesn't have much in the way of special abilities save its terrifying to behold (strange appearance) meaning he curdles milk with a glance. If you *really* want more abilities built in I can cook that up, but the game won't let me increase the characters stats as such, instead replacing them with its own. That's no problem and it will be cheaper to buy higher Influence/Charisma/Actor with the costume if you so wish. Or you can go with the alter ego thing and change forms.

Run out of time to sort Frostbite but it's an easy fix. Will ... ah what the heck. Sleep is overrated.



Ice Production to 11APs, Energy Blast (cold, need to amend it but we know) 15APs with a serious burnout so a roll of 2 or 3 on your attack roll conks the power out for an hour, and means you'll rely on ice Production or your fists until your can recover. Military Science is added, and Wealth 9APs makes him pretty rich - feel free to suggest somewhere else to spend the 20 or so points you'd get from lowering that. He also gains cold immunity. I'm pretty certain that when iced up and with cold immunity on all the time anyway the chances are he never has to worry about feeling the pinch. Cold wise, that is. If you like I can drop the cold immunity to give him the Frostbite power which is very apt and which I'd forgotten about. Military science isn't that useful really either, so there's 56 points to free up there if need be. Another option is sealed systems - helps when holding breath and so on.

Anyway, sack time. I hope to get the introduction fired out tomorrow to give you some idea of what is going on in the world around you...

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  DavidMcMahon on Fri Mar 01 2013, 02:18

The Haunt ver 02. Gave 50Hp for background, personality, description and picture (need to get the pics you sent off my main computer) and he lost a point of wealth - hey, actors are supposed to be skint more of the time. Well, the proper ones anyway. Hollywood proves you don't have to be talented actor to make loads of money

Having just made his way up to "Also Starrring" but not yet "Co-Starring", he would make okay money but not a lot of it. So he looks good to me. If we can have the right to tweak our characters after we start then I don't see a problem with version 2.0. Just have to remind myself once I get xp to buy more wealth. Razz

Found this little tidbit google searching:

Average Salaries
Television actors belong to two unions: the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA). According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, union actors with speaking parts in television and radio earned $782 per day or $2,713 for a five-day work week as of 2008. Under SAG's Basic Television Agreement, the minimum daily rate increased to $809 as of 2010. The weekly rate improved to $2,808 as of 2010. "Major role" performers, or actors with significant roles, earn $4,450 for a 30 minute program and $7,119 for a one-hour program. Background actors earn $139 per day as of 2010.

Top Salaries for Leading Roles
Top stars and actors with leading roles in hit shows make significantly more than union scale. Jerry Seinfeld made headline news when it was reported that he made a deal with NBC to earn $1 million per episode for the sitcom "Seinfeld." He turned down an offer of $5 million per episode to continue the show in 1998. Other superstar television actors such as Kyra Sedgwick began earning $250, 000 per episode of "The Closer" in 2007. "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit" stars Christopher Meloni and Mariska Hargitay begin earning as much as $300,000 per episode in 2007. Former CSI actor William Petersen earned more than $500,000 per episode and Kiefer Sutherland of "24" earns $400,000 per hour as of 2007, doubling as the show's executive producer.

another source:
On average, an actor will earn approximately $50,000 a year. With that said, there are few who earn far above this number, and some who earn less. This is simply the median found, and what should be expected.

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri Mar 01 2013, 08:17

Admin wrote:
Ice Production to 11APs, Energy Blast (cold, need to amend it but we know) 15APs with a serious burnout so a roll of 2 or 3 on your attack roll conks the power out for an hour, and means you'll rely on ice Production or your fists until your can recover.

I'm happy with this, Frostbite has always had some draw backs to his powers. But I like that he can overdo it - certainly adds to the whole notion of him being powerful but limited.

Admin wrote:
Military Science is added, and Wealth 9APs makes him pretty rich - feel free to suggest somewhere else to spend the 20 or so points you'd get from lowering that. He also gains cold immunity. I'm pretty certain that when iced up and with cold immunity on all the time anyway the chances are he never has to worry about feeling the pinch. Cold wise, that is. If you like I can drop the cold immunity to give him the Frostbite power which is very apt and which I'd forgotten about. Military science isn't that useful really either, so there's 56 points to free up there if need be. Another option is sealed systems - helps when holding breath and so on.

Anyway, sack time. I hope to get the introduction fired out tomorrow to give you some idea of what is going on in the world around you...

Ok so I guess that Joe might be taken on board a military weapons based science team, because he is good military not necessarily because he has the science background. But to be honest looking at the skills, purchasing things like Vehicles or Weapons, though a good fit for his background, seem almost entirely redundant in game terms. How often would he need to know how to fly a plane? Or work a weapon? He has powers for these things. So in one sense going with the military skill seems like a good fit for now. It was either that or science.

I quiet like the idea that Joe starts out with nothing, not because I want to scrape back points to spend elsewhere, only to have the DM hand me a job which ups my wealth for free, but because I like the possibility of him being a Peter Parker, everyman type character. I've always related to that side of Heroes whereas on the super side I've related most to Batman and Spiderman (Bruce Wayne is not someone whose orbit I could comprehend as I could Peter's etc). But does that mean I limit myself and make starting in the game unnecessarily complicated? I couldn't work out from reading what the BC and FC is for wealth and therefore what I'd gain v loose over dropping wealth. I also couldn't find the Frostbite power you referred to?

But I kind of like the idea that Joe, might have his assets frozen, (no pun intended) and that he is 'forced' back to work because he hasn't independent wealth to go back to. Originally we had him working on weapons, to stop Heroes, whilst trying to avoid discovery. It would be interesting to go back to seeing how that my play out.

Anyway that is more than enough for now, let me know what you think about the wealth and where I can find the details on the Frostbite power.

Thanks

Sj
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Fri Mar 01 2013, 08:20

Yeah the offer to allow you free reign to tweak or change your character to your hearts content in the first couple of adventures is open to all. After that, we'll assume you've settled into the role and progress with XP will be the only way you can change. If I get chance before I go to work will read up on the frotbite power and change Frostbite as its the only easy way I can see for him to lower the temperature in a room, plus I need to look at Frostbot and the math again.
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Hello Everyone!

Post  deeyin on Fri Mar 01 2013, 14:11

I should introduce myself as well. I am Dee, and a player in roxolid's other game and was invited here. I do not read comic books other than manga and have seen few superhero movies, so perhaps I will miss some of the tropes at times, but I am excited to try. Razz

My gaming background started in freeform, in Sailor Moon rpgs, so I was a little disappointed they had Sailor Moon and Mercury as avatars here, but not Sailor Venus! Laughing
However, my husband is an absolute gaming computer, and through him I have played more systems than I can count, and have read many of them as well. My personal favorites are Vampire the Masquerade and the Sailor Moon setting for Big Eyes Small Mouth. As for this system, I think I know it fairly well, although have not had the chance to play much before.


I am looking through the posts here now, and have a few comments on what I have seen, if you do not mind.

Admin, I like your description of how you see the game. The how we do things, as opposed to if we do them. I am very poor with investigations, but do like the interaction opportunities and moral delimmas you propose, so I am looking forward to this.

I would like to add a comment to your game examples, if I might. The Thing would be an Effect value of 15-18, not an Acting value. He is very strong, but is not a phenomenal warrior or martial artist. He would aldo have a very good Resistance value since he is stony and hard to hurt. Also you mentioned the speed of sound. At 9 APs of movement, then you can create damaging sonic booms, and at 16 APs, you can cause great injury to yourself and others.

SJ, you mentioned that you thought the scientist skill seemed limited. One option is to take a scholar or expertise in a particular field, which makes you considerably more skilled in the field.

Admin, I think 8000 cubic feet is 20' x 20' x 20'.

For those of you new to the game, there are three things that should be remembered.
1. Despite some of the descriptions of statistic levels, (where they say 3 is a bright high school graduate, and 5 a college graduate) that is not quite so. A 2 is human average for all statistics. And as the Admin said, every point ~doubles~ the strength or power of the ability. Someone with a movement of 3 moves twice as fast and far as someone with a movement of 2. Someone with a 10 strength can lift twice as much as someone with a strength of 9. So, you can see just a few APs makes you considerably stronger, smarter, faster, etc than the average person.
2. On skills, if a skill is too broad, you can just take some of the subskills, instead of all of them, such as for someone who can drive cars and boats, but not planes and spacecraft. It could save you few points and let you tailor your character a little bit better.
3. Remember that Irrational Attractions, Fears, Hatreds, Rage and Psychological Instabilities will force you to lose some control over your character when they come into effect.

For Frostbite, since he has an Infl and Aura of 5, then having Charisma of 5 does nothing for him, since it substitutes for those directly, as we discussed. If that is so he can raise Infl and Cha later, while leaving Aura as it is, that is fine, but as it stands, it is not helping him at all. If the Charisma skill was deleted, he could raise Infl and Aura a bit more directly, which would be more help right now. If he also lowered the number of subskills of art (few people are skilled in every form of art, after all), between that and losing cha skill, he could likely raise both Infl and Aura to a 7, which is four times as terrifying. affraid

Admin, I do not think Leonardo da Vinci would be astounded if you went back and drew him a picture of a glider or a plane. He would priobably just smile and pull out his sketches of the gliders and helicopters he envisioned... and some of his designs for the gliders were later actually built and shown to work! Shocked

I see Dunecat already answered the ice volume question already. I would add though that it does not have to be an area of 400 square feet. If you make it 10' high, rather than 20' high, then you have 800 square feet to play with. And at 2' thick, you could cover an area of 4000 square feet, so 200' x 20', or 400' x 10', etc. The Thames is about 60' across where it starts, so Frostbite could easily freeze across it there. At Westminster bridge, which might be considered the average width, perhaps? it is about 830' wide, so he could made a 2' thick sheet of ice slightly less than 5' wide.

Superspeed was changed to FC 8 in Blood of Heroes because it is one of the most unbalanced powers they have created. It should really be closer to a FC 10. With it, you get the movement ability (Running alone is FC 2), you get the bonuis to your initiative (I think it is a FC of 1 for that, but you think it is higher, based on our discussions about adding it to teleportation, and even then yoou limited it), you can reduce the time you spend on tasks, you can substitute it for EV to do damage, and you can actually replace your Dexterity (FC:7) with it- not sub for AV and OV, but actually substitute for Dexterity. It makes no sense for it to be only a FC of 5, sonsidering all of the things it can do. Blood of Heroes also lets you use it to substitute for perception checks as well, and I agree, that add multiple actions ability is not one that should ever be used.

I see both Haunt and Frostbite now have the Infl 7, Aura 5, and linked Cha. Linking skills is a wonderful thing, with two exceptions- Charisma and perhaps Martial Arts. Linking those is rarely worth it, since one of their prime uses is to sub with the linked skill, which is the same number. Cha subs directly for Infl and Aura, so this only helps to raise your Aura. Removing Cha and just raising Aura to 7 would be cheaper, and you could use the additional points to further raise Infl or Aura should you choose.

SJ, Wealth has no base cost, just a FC of 2. It is technically the only thing you cannot raise by experience, only through lucky upkeep rolls. However, I would think it a good idea to allow someone to spend xp to raise wealth if they can give a good justification on why, or in game reason why it should be allowed. Also, you did not see the Frostbite power because it is not in the DC Heroes book. It was a later addition. Frostbite and Farication are in the Blood of Heroes book, as the Admin mentioned there were some tweaks and additions to the game there.

Hmm, I think that is everything! I am sorry for the long post! I will have my character complete and sent in by the end of the weekend.

Thank you again for the invitation! ^_^

warmly,
dee

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  DavidMcMahon on Fri Mar 01 2013, 16:39

Hey Dee! Nice thoughts. Thanks
Would also point out the Lore Knights game that's at the bottom of the website. 1930s Pulp Supers. Only two of us playing at the moment and it is used to try out new gaming rules but is it's own game too. Always could use a new player or two there. cheers
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Steeple_jackuk on Fri Mar 01 2013, 22:09

deeyin wrote:I should introduce myself as well. I am Dee...Hmm, I think that is everything!

Thank you again for the invitation! ^_^

Hi Dee

thanks for the thoughtful answers, I think I got most of it (still very new to DC heroes, really, Paul does all the heavy lifting behind the scenes Wink Anyway its great to have another player onboard, hope you stick around. Apart from Paul and myself the rosta has changed quite a bit over the years, although Dave has been very good at keeping up Wink. Anyway look forward to reading your further adventures and interactions with the rest of us Wink

Sj
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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

Post  Admin on Sat Mar 02 2013, 00:19

Plenty said there! Welcome Dee (and everyone else - think that's everyone having checked in).

Lore Knights Players (Dave and David) will be updating at the weekend and get you guys moving again, sorry for delay Smile

With regards the linked Skills, they are fairly redundant its true, but on the other hand Charisma (in the Blood of Heroes game, which as mentioned is a tweaked and updated version of the rules in DC heroes, so it's not essential to have. Besides that it makes your eyes burn - the art is horrible) lists the there subskills as for Skilled use only. Even in the DC heroes rules, unskilled use for Persuasion/Intimidation/Interrogation (the three subskills for Charisma) would suffer +2 Column Shift to OV/RV thus reducing Frostbites Influence (effectively) to the 1-2 Column if he didn't have the skill.

Dave E - what all that crunchy stuff means is that you can save a bunch of points by not taking Charisma but will find it hard to persuade people and intimidate them. With Influence 7 he would have a 50/50 chance of influencing normal thugs (Influence 2) but anyone higher than that (most bad guys) would probably laugh at him or ignore him if he tried to scare them into giving up.

Dee - Breaking Superspeed down, yes it is underpriced in the DC Heroes rules. FC8 is probably closer to the mark. And I agree about multiple actions - it is a potential game breaker. With regards my example of the Thing, I thought I'd put his Effect value (strength) down rather than the acting/opposing value, so you're right there Smile He is a good fighter though. That's why I considered splitting Dex. I don't want to overcomplicate things, but buying one aspect of Dex at FC3, then the other at FC4 would split Acting and Opposing up, and use the lowest score of the two for Initiative and all other Dex related actions.

Example:

Spiderman Dex: 8/13 His Acting value is 8 (competent fighter) his opposing value is 13 (superb at dodging)
Superman Dex: 13 with an advantage of being variable. For an automatic action he can split his Dex up as he sees fit but with no lower value than 6 in either.
Thing Dex: 10/5 Acting value 10 Opposing value 5 - great at fighting, gets hit a lot

Anyway, that's just late night chat, not a house rule or anything else. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on it and whether it 'broke' the game though.

Dave E - Frostbite. Dee makes some good suggestions. I figure maybe Science at a reasonable level to keep cost down and/or the scholar advantage of Weapons design would cover his former career.



Ditched Military Science, dropped wealth, ditched Cold Immunity, gained Frostbite, Scientist and Scholar (weapons design). We can further tweak by dropping Ice Production down to 9 and freeing up more points to spend elsewhere if you want to - his Energy blast doles out the real damage, the Ice Production is a backup and very versatile (think Iceman, but not as annoying) but is a very expensive power (FC10 - the highest).

The Frostbite power:



What that gobbledigook means is:

  • Anyone Frostbite touches, or who touches him (when this power is active) suffers an attack of 8APs from the extreme cold. This would incapacitate an ordinary person instantly, so be careful when you use it.
  • The power adds to Frostbites resistance against cold based attacks (I ditched Cold Immunity of 10 to get Frostbite of 8. By dropping Ice Production a bit lower we might be able to scrape to Cold Immunity as well, or raise strength or this power higher, your call)
  • Frostbite is more vulnerable to fire/heat based attacks when this power or his icing power is in effect. This is in addition to his -3 Columns vulnerability, so he'd suffer -5 column shifts if attacked by fire/heat. This is a bad, bad thing. If he comes up against a fire using villain it would be best to a) keep your distance and spend lots of hero points on defence or b) run. We can change this by ditching the vulnerability for something else or lowering points on his powers and abilities.
  • Finally others feel the intense cold at distance. Within twenty feet frost will form where he stands. Forty feet away it will feel uncomfortably cold.


We are in the DRAFT stage of characters for the first two adventures remember, so we can try this writeup and see how it goes. So long as the changes are feasible (in other words not completely changing the characters powers and abilities thus null and voiding the adventure just finished...) we can juggle the points around. I'm more interested in Role Playing, the Story and having fun rather than the crunchy bits, and if you guys are happy, I'm happy so holler if there is something about the game or your character you don't like and want to change - I won't take offense!

Another thought was to give him higher intelligence to simulate Frostbot inside his head and the Interface power which would simulate Frostbot taking over a machine. I've scratched my head over this. Make it as a Sidekick? Gadget? Pet? Simply roleplay it instead with higher Intelligence and the Interface power? Ryan and Dee, you guys know character creation inside out, any suggestions on how to simulate a sentient computer program that lives inside Frostbites head?

(The character was created randomly in the first place and Dave came up with a right mish mash of powers that he's somehow made work, and very successfully I might add)

Right, 00.13, sack time and my planned intro will have to wait till tomorrow. I will set the scene, give as much background as I can and set up solo issues for those players with character sheets in. Solo missions to get you into the swing of things at first, and for the less experienced to have a chance at learning the system. There are quite a few combat options available and hero point use is important. Not that you'll have many/any (might give everyone a float) to start with. I will explain things and give examples where needed in the text, and you all have access to the DC heroes book at least if you fancy some bedtime reading, albeit on a laptop or tablet.

Arggh! The time! Right I have to hit sack, more later today (Saturday now, doh)

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Charisma

Post  deeyin on Sat Mar 02 2013, 05:05

Hello again,

Admin, on the charisma question, I do not agree with that interpretation. Character interaction is the one skill where you would not apply unskilled penalties, and it does not need the skill to be used.

Despite how they label the subskills as skilled in Blood of Heroes, character interaction can be done unskilled, by anyone, and they can try any of those maneuvers even without that skill. If this was not so, then unless you had charisma skill, then you cannot try to persuade someone, which is not believable.
In Blood of Heroes, page 162 under resolving character interaction, it states that a character uses their Infl/Aura to accomplish this task, with no indication that it would be penalized if you do not have the skill. If it was skilled only use as stated, then they would have had to say that, not the attributes. And the example they give to show the use of interaction again states it is the Infl/Aura, and that must be what is being used, since Anarchy Man does not even have Charisma skill. And there is again no statement made that he is doing so at a penalty due to not having the skill. So, the game example shows it is a direct use of the Infl/Aura, unpenalized, and without need for Charisma skill. Then a page later, they then go on to explain the Charisma skill allows a direct substitution for the Infl/Aura, but there is still no mention that not having it causes penalties on the interaction.

The Charisma skill itself in its own description also states that the interactions are skilled use, not useable as unskilled use, like in every other situation where unskilled use penalties would come into play. This also makes sense, because otherwise normal humans with scores of 2APs, or even people with some gravitas 3-4 APs, would not even be able to make interaction maneuvers at all since they would have a 0/0 AV/EV, but this is unreasonable, as even people who are not toastmasters or debaters can still talk and persuade others.

The DC Heroes book says essentially the exact same thing, but points out that someone who only possesses one subskill of charisma would only use the skill for that one, and would use Infl/Aura as usual for the other interactions.

So, I believe it is meant for Infl/Aura without the +2CS penalty for interaction. Charisma is meant as a cheaper way to use the Character Interaction ability for cheaply (FC:6 alone rather than FC & and FC 6), but it is a substitute.

It is the same with Martial Arts. Martial Arts can only be used skilled, and you can use it to punch someone. But if you do not have martial arts, you can still punch someone and are not penalized 2CS for not being a martial artist. You just use your Dex. Charisma is handled exactly the same way. Substitute it if you have it, if not, use your attribute alone.

What are your thoughts?

Warmly,
dee

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Post  deeyin on Sat Mar 02 2013, 05:33

David, thank you for the mention of the Lore Knights. At the moment, my game time is someone full, save for someone in one of my favorite systems or one I have really, really wanted to try (like DC Heroes!), but it might be an option at some point. I hope it goes well for you both though!

SJ, I do plan on being around… at least until you decide I am too neurotic and throw me out... ^_^;

Admin, much of the above on Charisma we mentioned before, but I added a new point or two to it as well. But essentially, besides the examples supporting the use of it as a direct unpenalized substitution, it makes little sense to say that someone with an Infl/Aura of 7/7, who would be 32 times more influential than the average person, would have only a 50-50 chance to intimidate or persuade a normal thug. And it would probably actually be lower, when penalties for Attitude Adjustment is considered for persuasion, or you realize you must exceed their Spirit to intimidate them, or time penalties for Persuation or Interrogation are considered. But also note that in the 3rd edition DC Heroes character interaction section (page 110) it also says it is Infl/Aura that is used, no mention of penalties. And on Page 111, under the charisma skill, it says someone with only one subskill uses Charisma skill for that, but Infl/Aura for the other two interactions as usual, again with no mention of penalties there, or mentioned anywhere in the entire Character Interaction section.

For splitting attributes, I do not see a problem with it, but it seems to add a layer of complication not needed. You could achieve the same result by leaving a lower Dex and taking Martial Arts and substituting it for the area the person is good at, especially if you use the BoH version and only take the one subskill (Blocking, for someone who cannot fight well, but is hard to hit). You can also make use of dodging with acrobatics, or superspeed to substitute for Dex (as some theorize superman has a lower dex, but routinely substitutes superspeed for it to compensate). Or a high dex and a drawback that they have a lower AV or EV (like Wonder Woman has a high body, but a limit that her RV versus killing attacks is lower.) Or a partial attack vulnerability that lowers EV versus melee combat. Or something else similar. It is similar with some powers, you can add the limitation that they do not have their own AV, so they could be incredibly powerful with a high power AP for effect, but they would attempt to hit with a, likely lower, AV based on action attributes- Dex, Int, or Infl).
Oh, darn, I had one other thought on this, but cannot remember it. So, let me just say that I already think there are enough options that splitting them is not necessary, but I do not see a problem if you do so, but it would probably negate the utility of many of these other options available.

As for a sentient computer program living in someone’s head, on that I am stumped! I will ask my husband if he has any thoughts, and it might also be someone to ask on the DC heroes list where we met. But a Reliability number 0 gadget that cannot be taken away seems to be one of the best options.

Warmly,
dee

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Re: Welcome, new players and old!

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